quick question/ who invented the rapture?

[nonconformist]

Was it darby,or possibly scofield?

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

The origins of the Secret Rapture preceed both Darby and Scofield. Before Darby was a man named Edward Irving. He translated the works of a Jesuit priest named Emmanuel lacunza, who in turn built upon the prophetical interpretation of Ribera, a 16th century Jesuit who was the first to teach that all the events in the book of Revelation were to take place literally during the three and a half years reign of the Antichrist way down at the end of the age. These Jesuit origins of futurism was a Counter-Reformation effort designed to shift the emphasis of Protestant historicist eschatology away from the identification of the Pope as Antichrist.

Source: The Secret Rapture of the Church

 

[RamistThomist]

The Bible

 

[nonconformist]

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
The origins of the Secret Rapture preceed both Darby and Scofield. Before Darby was a man named Edward Irving. He translated the works of a Jesuit priest named Emmanuel lacunza, who in turn built upon the prophetical interpretation of Ribera, a 16th century Jesuit who was the first to teach that all the events in the book of Revelation were to take place literally during the three and a half years reign of the Antichrist way down at the end of the age. These Jesuit origins of futurism was a Counter-Reformation effort designed to shift the emphasis of Protestant historicist eschatology away from the identification of the Pope as Antichrist.

Source: The Secret Rapture of the Church

Thanks andrewit is amazing how a site that can bo so bad can also be so good

 

[biblelighthouse]

Originally posted by nonconformist
it is amazing how a site that can bo so bad can also be so good

Yeah, I thought the same thing about that site. It's kind of like John Wesley's sermons. You never know whether you'll get a piece of gold, or a pile of . . . well, something else.

Here's a GOOD spot on that site: http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/

 

[nonconformist]

Originally posted by biblelighthouse

Originally posted by nonconformist
it is amazing how a site that can bo so bad can also be so good

Yeah, I thought the same thing about that site. It's kind of like John Wesley's sermons. You never know whether you'll get a piece of gold, or a pile of . . . well, something else.

Here's a GOOD spot on that site: http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/

NICE,THANKS

 

[nonconformist]

I was still timid with that sight since i fell into there nonsence in the past

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by Draught Horse
The Bible

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

Since every orthodox position holds to a rapture (i.e. that we will meet the Lord in the air when He returns as with a procession of victory) I would also say that its the Bible that invented it! Unless of course you are a hyper preterist. But then you'd he a heretic so it wouldn't matter anyway!

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Ok, just to clarify, I thought the original question had to do with the so-called 'secret rapture.' The doctrine of the rapture itself, understood in orthodox terms, as has been well noted, has its origin in the Bible.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

To quote from someone's favorite message board:

"The world will most certainly take notice when the rapture occurs. If the Statue of Liberty suddenly vanished from New York Harbor, ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN would break from regular programming to cover this marvel. To have millions of people disappear without a trace, the media storm cannot be imagined. If one car or airplane crashed without a driver or pilot, it would be a major news item. After the rapture, the media will have thousands of examples to choose from. Think of the vital positions that Christians hold in the workplace. Many businesses will be paralyzed by the loss of key personnel; the economy will suffer a devastating blow; and millions of people, who had friends and family members raptured, will be terrified. The rapture will create a media event that will rival any breaking news event from the past. If you turned on your television, you would find 24-hour-coverage on every channel. The President would be calling emergency meeting after emergency meeting, and churches would be filled to overflowing."
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Frankly, I don't see anything 'secret' about it.....

 

[InSixDays]

Dave MacPherson has written some books on the origins of the pre-trib rapture. He traces it back to Margaret Macdonald, a follower of Edward Irving and a mystic.

The Incredible Cover-Up
The Rapture Plot

Interesting stuff.

[Edited on 6-20-2005 by InSixDays]

 

[Ex Nihilo]

Originally posted by OS_X
To quote from someone's favorite message board:

"The world will most certainly take notice when the rapture occurs. If the Statue of Liberty suddenly vanished from New York Harbor, ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN would break from regular programming to cover this marvel. To have millions of people disappear without a trace, the media storm cannot be imagined. If one car or airplane crashed without a driver or pilot, it would be a major news item. After the rapture, the media will have thousands of examples to choose from. Think of the vital positions that Christians hold in the workplace. Many businesses will be paralyzed by the loss of key personnel; the economy will suffer a devastating blow; and millions of people, who had friends and family members raptured, will be terrified. The rapture will create a media event that will rival any breaking news event from the past. If you turned on your television, you would find 24-hour-coverage on every channel. The President would be calling emergency meeting after emergency meeting, and churches would be filled to overflowing."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frankly, I don't see anything 'secret' about it.....

So they are assuming the President would be left behind?

 

[BlackCalvinist]

Well, you know someone will be appointed president if Dubya does get raptured....

 

[govols]

Probably Hitlary. She'll be Left Behind.

 

[kceaster]

Yeah, and what about the shout and the big trumpet blast? Is it only heard by those being caught up, or does everyone hear it?

I always thought that was funny. A secret rapture preceded by the shout of the archangel and a blast of a heavenly trumpet. It must be like the dog whistle thing.

KC

 

[LadyFlynt]

I honestly don't know where ppl get labeling this as a "secret" rapture. I grew up Dispensational and we were NEVER told that the rapture was going to be "secret"...who came up with THAT term?

 

[Texas Aggie]

I am not so sure there will be very many raptured anyway... the world will probably not even notice (hence the secret) Matthew 24:37. Noah and his family were sealed into the ark and saved from the flood (what a tiny number). Enoch walked with God as well as Noah. I suppose God invented the rapture with Enoch. I think we should also take notice of the importance of "walking with God" and what it means for the believer.

We are to watch and be ready. How are we to watch?... there are some clues. Be ready for what?...carried away at the twinkling of an eye?... or, be ready to go into the tribulation? I choose to walk with God as Enoch and Noah.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

Originally posted by LadyFlynt
I honestly don't know where ppl get labeling this as a "secret" rapture. I grew up Dispensational and we were NEVER told that the rapture was going to be "secret"...who came up with THAT term?

I'm with you on that one. I never heard the term 'secret' applied to the rapture, either.

In fact, the only place I've heard the rapture called 'secret' is in the writings of folks who disagreed with a pretrib rapture position.... mostly in the reformed camp. But that's my experience.....

 

[kceaster]

My mom thinks the rapture will be secret.

The secret rapture means that no one will know where these people have gone. Suddenly, poof, they're not there.

Isn't this held by a great many dispensationalists?

And yet, when Christ returns there will be a shout and the blast of a trumpet. How could everyone in the world be oblivious to this happening? I think that had to be one of the first questions posed to this position when it was invented. And I think from there came the answer, they won't know it happened.

So, if the world doesn't know what happened, wouldn't that of necessity be a secret rapture?

I really do not know because I have never been a dispensationalist, but it seems to me that everyone I've heard talk about the rapture, those 'left behind' don't know where everyone went. To me, that has to be a secret.

In Christ,

KC

 

[LadyFlynt]

KC, Yes on the poof...then yes on the returning trumpets. But obviously ppl will notive the "poof" and missing relatives/neighbors/friends. Therefore, it's NOT secret.

Do they "know" where the others have gone? Some do and some don't. And those who do would tell those who don't. Again, definately not a secret.

It'd be nice if those of other persuasions wouldn't add words to what another believes...like adding "secret" to rapture in this case. I know I was majorly ill-informed about covenant theology due to ppl calling it "replacement" theology. Took a year for my hubby (who also used to be Dispensational) to get me over my biased thinking to even consider the covenant stance. Then we were fortunate to have a very patient pastor talk with me (thank you, Pastor Tony! )

 

[kceaster]

Thanks for the education, Colleen. I'll be more careful next time I discuss this with my mother.

In Christ,

KC