Sabbath Observance

Discussion in 'The Law of God' started by Joshua, Jan 1, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Henry from Canada

    Henry from Canada Puritan Board Freshman

    Joseph said:

    "Marcos, please read these two articles:

    The Sabbath is for New Testament Christians

    1 Timothy 1:8-11 and the Utility of the Decalogue"


    I can find no reference to Hebrews in these articles and only a little reference to Galatians.

    Both of these books have serious implications for OT laws and the Sabbath.

    Question: Why did these 2 articles basically ignore these two books.
     
  2. Henry from Canada

    Henry from Canada Puritan Board Freshman

    I suffer from a disability.

    In spite of this, for the past 17 years I endeavor to stretch and exercise every day. This process takes at least 90 minutes per day generally and it can be very tough.

    This is clearly in violation of Old Testament laws, however, this may have kept me from being permanently wheelchair-bound, and it may have kept me from being obese. I weigh now at 44 what I weighed when I was 18.

    I justify this by saying that it is permissable to do good any day of the week.

    Joseph, am I wrong?
     
  3. just_grace

    just_grace Puritan Board Freshman

    What did you vote Josh?

    Are you determined to make things difficult for others, it is basic Christian teaching that we are not bound by the Law, any of it, it is all Grace and all Christ, put your filthy rags in the bin where they belong.

    David
     
  4. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    David,
    What part of the 10 commandments are we not bound by?
     
  5. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Henry,
    In your case, it is essential, much like eating. The apostles picked grain on the sabbath for nourishment. Jesus healed. There is a lot of difference between having to do something on the sabbath and just choosing to.
     
  6. Henry from Canada

    Henry from Canada Puritan Board Freshman

    As you can see, my avatar is a cow. Her name is Alison.

    Alison strongly agrees with my Sabbath views. She expects to get milked twice on Sunday and also expects to be fed on Sunday.

    However, regardless of your Sabbath views, she hopes each of us reaches that land flowing with MILK and honey.

    She is saving money right now so she can buy a cowputer and join this board.
     
  7. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    I am not an expert in Cows. I believe I have heard a cow must be milked or it could harm her? Is this true? If it requires daily milking, for this reason, this would be considered an act of mercy, not work. But, if it is not true, it is work and you have six other days to milk Bessie! Why is that not enough for you? men rail against this command. They do not want to give God what is His.

    Because of this, these men will not enter into His rest.

    [Edited on 2-3-2006 by Scott Bushey]
     
  8. Henry from Canada

    Henry from Canada Puritan Board Freshman

    Scott said:
    "Henry, In your case, it is essential, much like eating. The apostles picked grain on the sabbath for nourishment. Jesus healed. There is a lot of difference between having to do something on the sabbath and just choosing to. "

    Thank you for your comment, Scott. Hopefully, it will mean that if I am wrong with this practise, God will be more merciful.

    However, this is something of a "judgment call" on your part.

    What about a fat person who exercises on Sunday? That exercise may not be absolutely required, but exercising on Sunday may still be "good."

    I guess what concerns me, Scott, is that when Christians take a OT view of the Sabbath, those Christians are forced to make a lot of "judgment calls."

    What work precisely is essential according to the WCF?
    - dairy farming?
    - cash crop farming in May when the weather is good on Sunday for planting corn but it may rain on Monday?
    - restaurant work?
    - NFL players?
    - long-distance truck driver?

    The issue of moral vs ceremonial laws is also something of a judgment call.
     
  9. Me Died Blue

    Me Died Blue Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    David, along that same line of thought, it it biblically justified for a Christian today to murder, or commit adultery? Why not?
     
  10. biblelighthouse

    biblelighthouse Puritan Board Junior

    Of course you are supposed to feed and milk your cows, even on Sunday. That is a work of necessity/mercy, and is NOT in violation of the Sabbath.

    Likewise, in your condition, exercise on the Sabbath is a work of necessity/mercy, and is NOT in violation of the Sabbath.

    Jesus was just as much against the Pharisaical interpretation of Sabbath law as you are. However, Jesus did NOT abrogate the 4th commandment, any more than He abrogated the other 9 commandments.

    We still must obey the Sabbath as God commanded. But we are not bound to obey the Sabbath as the Pharisees commanded. The distinction is VERY important.

    We are commanded to rest from our work on Sunday, so we can focus on worshipping God. The only exceptions are acts of necessity and acts of mercy, both of which allow for cow feeding, cow milking, and health-necessary exercise.
     
  11. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    Scott, absolutely. A freshened milk cow needs to be milked every day. Now if she is a beef cow with a calf, that part is handled by her youngun.

    I had a neighbor who decided that he shouldn't feed his cows on Sundays. This was in Montana where winter temps can go below minus 40 (C or F, it's the same at that point). Cows stay warm by the digestive process. His cows didn't look so good after a bad cold spell. Mine did, but I fed them every day.

    Vic
     
  12. Henry from Canada

    Henry from Canada Puritan Board Freshman

    Scott said:
    "I am not an expert in Cows. I believe I have heard a cow must be milked or it could harm her? Is this true? If it requires daily milking, for this reason, this would be considered an act of mercy, not work. But, if it is not true, it is work and you have six other days to milk Bessie! Why is that not enough for you? men rail against this command. They do not want to give God what is His."

    I grew up on a dairy farm. We always milked on Sunday because I believe not doing so is harmful to the cow and discomforting to the cow.
     
  13. Rich Barcellos

    Rich Barcellos Puritan Board Freshman

    Here's somehting I wrote elsewhere.

    The resurrection is also seen as the day in which Christ ceased from His redemptive labors. In Hebrews 4:9-10, we read, "œThere remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His." We must, of course, seek to understand the context of Hebrews 4:9-10 to understand its meaning. Hebrews 4:1-8 says:

    Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "œSo I swore in My wrath, "˜They shall not enter My rest,´" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "œAnd God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; and again in this place: "œThey shall not enter My rest." Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "œToday," after such a long time, as it has been said: "œToday, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts." For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.

    The "œrest" of verses 1, 3, 5, 6 ("œit"), and 8 is the "œrest" that all believers enter through faith which is experienced in this age and the age to come. It is God´s eternal rest, which He entered into on the seventh day of creation, experienced by all who trust in Christ. Hebrews 4:9-10 comes immediately after discussing the eternal rest that some have entered and others are yet to.
    The word translated "œrest" in Hebrews 4:9 in the NKJV is sabbatismo.j (sabbatismos). This is its only use in the New Testament. A verbal form of it is used in LXX of Exodus 16:30, referring to what the Jews did on the seventh day (i.e., they sabbatized or rested on the seventh day). Commenting on sabbatismo.j, Robert P. Martin says:

    I think that it is of interest that "œin each of these places the term [sabbatismo,j] denotes the observance or celebration of the Sabbath," i.e., not "œa Sabbath rest" as a state that is entered into but "œa Sabbath-keeping" as a practice that is observed. This, of course, corresponds to the word´s morphology, for the suffix -moj indicates an action and not just a state. This at least suggests that if the writer of Hebrews meant only "œa Sabbath rest," i.e., "œa Sabbath state" to be entered into, he could have continued to use kata,pausij, for he had already established the referent of that word as God´s own Sabbath rest which is to be entered into by faith (cf., 4:1, 3, 4, 11). The word sabbatismo,j suggests a Sabbath action, i.e., "œa Sabbath-keeping," "¦

    In every other instance where the English word "œrest" is used in the context of this passage (Heb. 3:11, 18; 4:1, 3, 5, 11) another word, kata,pausij (katapausis), is used referring to the eschatological rest of the eternal state. Why does the author use sabbatismo.j in verse 9? Joseph A. Pipa suggests:

    The uniqueness of the word suggests a deliberate, theological purpose. He selects or coins sabbatismos because, in addition to referring to spiritual rest, it suggests as well an observance of that rest by a "˜Sabbath-keeping´. Because the promised rest lies ahead for the New Covenant people, they are to strive to enter the future rest. Yet as they do so, they anticipate it by continuing to keep the Sabbath.

    "œ[T]he people of God" in verse 10 refers to the New Covenant people of God (cf. 1 Pt. 2:10, "œwho once were not a people but are now the people of God"). The New Covenant people of God have a Sabbath to keep. But why does there remain a Sabbath-keeping for the New Covenant people of God? Because the eternal rest of God in the eternal state is yet future. So as the old Sabbath both looked back to creation and forward to an eternal rest, so the New Covenant Sabbath looks back to creation and forward to an eternal rest.
    Upon what day is the New Covenant people of God´s Sabbath day? Hebrews 4:10 says, "œFor he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His." It is clear from the context that God entered His rest on the seventh day of creation (Heb. 4:4; cf. Gen. 2:2-3). Who is the author referring to in verse 10, when he says, "œFor he who has entered His rest" (emphasis added)? Some refer this to the believer who has "œceased from his works" (Heb. 4:10b). But this interpretation would compare God´s ceasing from His work of creation and being refreshed by it (Gen. 1:31, "œThen God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good." and Ex. 31:17, "œ"¦and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.") with the believer´s ceasing from his unrighteous works of sin and resting in God´s salvation rest. When God ceased from His work of creation, it was not because it was bad but because it was "œvery good." He was refreshed, that is, He took delight in what He had done. God´s ceasing from His work of creation and His subsequent rest does not compare with the believer´s ceasing from sinful works and taking rest in God. There is no parallel with this comparison. Believers don´t cease from their work and call it "œvery good." They are not "œrefreshed" as they look back at their sinful works.
    The text presents a parallel between "œhe who has entered His rest" and "œhas himself also ceased from his works" and God who ceased from His work of creation. The words "œhe who has entered His rest" and "œhas himself also ceased from his works" cannot apply to believers. It destroys the parallel. The writer is speaking of an individual ("œhe"¦himself"¦his") who has entered God´s rest as God has entered His rest. To maintain the parallel, it must be an individual "œwho has entered His rest" and "œceased from his works as God did from His." The only individual who can fit this parallel is Jesus Christ, who entered God´s (Christ is God) rest as our representative and "œceased from His works" when He rose from the dead. Pipa comments:

    God the Son rested from His work of redemption on the first day of the week as a sign that His work had objectively been accomplished and nothing remained to be done. In the resurrection He entered into the joy of His work and confirmed that eternal life had been purchased (Isa. 53:10, 11; Heb. 12:2). By His example, the day changed.

    Just as God entered His rest on the seventh day of creation, thus becoming the Sabbath day by positive example, so Christ entered His rest on the first day, the day He rose from the dead, the day His redemptive work was completed, thus becoming the Sabbath day of the New Covenant people of God by positive example.
     
  14. Rich Barcellos

    Rich Barcellos Puritan Board Freshman

    Marcos said: "They were also to be put to death if they broke it. Do you also think i should be put to death? Ex 31:14-15." Here's somehting I wrote elsewhere that deals with this.

    Some may want to claim that since capital punishment is attached to Sabbath breaking, it is merely ceremonial and for Israel alone as God´s Old Covenant nation in the Promised Land. It cannot be proven, however, that if a commandment has the death penalty attached to it under the Old Covenant it is, therefore, merely ceremonial and for Israel under the Old Covenant alone. For instance, the third commandment has the sanction of capital punishment attached to it under the Old Covenant as well (Lev. 20:1-3). No one, however, argues against the perpetuity of the third commandment due to this. The fifth commandment has the sanction of capital punishment attached to it under the Old Covenant as well (Ex. 21:12; Lev. 20:9; Deut. 21:18-21). No one, however, argues against the perpetuity of the fifth commandment due to this. The seventh commandment has the sanction of capital punishment attached to it under the Old Covenant also (Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:21-22). Again, no one argues against the perpetuity of the seventh commandment due to this. The Decalogue formed the heart of Old Covenant Israel´s law. It had various appendages added to it to administrate the unique redemptive-historical circumstances it was given in. These redemptive-historical appendages were added to the Decalogue under the Old Covenant "œuntil the time of reformation" (Heb. 9:10b). Simply because some commands of the Decalogue have the sanction of capital punishment attached to them under the Old Covenant does not mean they cannot function in other eras of redemptive history without those sanctions. The New Testament bears this out amply.
     
  15. Henry from Canada

    Henry from Canada Puritan Board Freshman

    Between the 7th day of creation and Jewish exodus from Egypt there are over 2,500 years.

    A lot has been written in the Bible about Abraham, Joseph, Jacob, and the other Jewish fathers.

    I can find no references to Sabbath rest during this 2,500 period.

    Question: Is it possible that Abraham did not rest on the Sabbath?


    At creation, God rested on the seventh day.

    Does God now rest on Sunday, or is he at work at all times keeping humanity from destroying itself, etc.?
     
  16. just_grace

    just_grace Puritan Board Freshman

    zzzzzzzzz!

    You just dont see it do you!

    Blatent :) In your eyes!

    It's life in the Spirit! That counts now? Surley!

    I agree that I need to get to grips with you lot :) 'mais comment, arrete le Loi...'

    I am not anti Christian ( could I be ) , I am a true born again Christian, not Preb like most here, but born again, and you cannot rob me of that.

    I am against Sabbath keeping yes, because my knowledge through Grace allows me that, I guess I have received more Grace than anyone who holds to Sabbath keeping or breaking it.

    I have much to learn I agree. Also I guess it is true that I am recovereing from a big fall.

    But I love God. He will look after me.

    Sorry to offend.

    [Edited on 2-4-2006 by just_grace]
     
  17. Me Died Blue

    Me Died Blue Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    David, just answer this question, one that I think can help us get to the heart of the issue from both sides: I know you would agree that murder or adultery are not consistent with biblical "life in the Spirit." What I'm asking is, why aren't they? How is it that we know those things are not consistent with the true life of grace in the Spirit?
     
  18. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    The Sabbath was made for man. God never rests nor sleeps:

    Psa 121:4 Behold, he who keeps Israel will neither slumber nor sleep.
     
  19. just_grace

    just_grace Puritan Board Freshman

    Sorry but I seem to see loads of replies to my,initial question after I reply to initial questions...... IS THIS SERVER EXTREMELY SLOW? OR MAYBE MALFUNCTIONING...or something else..??

    David
     
  20. Henry from Canada

    Henry from Canada Puritan Board Freshman

    Scott said:
    "The apostles picked grain on the sabbath for nourishment. Jesus healed. There is a lot of difference between having to do something on the sabbath and just choosing to. "

    Scott, I am not sure picking grain on Saturday was an act of necessity. There is no evidence to suggest that these disciples would have died if they had not picked the grain on Saturday. The human body can generally go days/weeks/months without food.

    Besides which, God forbade the Jews from gathering manna on the Sabbath. It was to be done on Friday.

    I think the disciples may have disobeyed OT Sabbath laws. I suspect to compile with these laws, they should have picked the grain on Friday and eaten at home on Saturday.

    But Jesus allowed them to pick the grain on the Sabbath. They basically gathered manna outside the home on the Sabbath.
     
  21. Rich Barcellos

    Rich Barcellos Puritan Board Freshman

    Sabbath and Silence

    "¢ There is no account of the Sabbath from creation to Sinai.

    This is a common objection that has warrant at face value. There is little the accounts in Genesis and Exodus give us on the Sabbath before Sinai (cf. Gen. 2:2-3 and Ex. 16:22ff.). This argument, however, proves too much. It proves more than the objector wants to prove. Hear the words of Gordon Clark:

    "¦before the time of Abraham the account is sparse on all points. For example, the law of monogamous marriage is not mentioned, though Christ referred to it as imposed at creation [Mt. 19:1-8]. Also, there is no mention of sacrifices from the time of Abel to Noah, nor from Genesis 47:1 till after the Exodus, a period of 400 years. There is no mention of the Sabbath from Joshua to I Kings "¦; yet this was a post-Mosaic period. "¦Hence, sparcity [sic], with reference to sacrifice, marriage, and the Sabbath, does not prove their non-existence. "¦If the Fourth Commandment was newly instituted in the desert, how can one avoid inconsistency without regarding the other nine also as new? Now, there is no mention of any law against murder in the first four chapters of Genesis. Yet Cain clearly knew that murder was forbidden.

    Silence actually proves nothing in this case. All Bible-believing Christians would argue on other grounds that murder, for instance, was a sin even before it was explicitly revealed as such. We must remember that Moses did not write the book of Genesis as an ethical handbook. He wrote it for the Jews just prior to entering the Promised Land to remind them who God is, who they were as Abraham´s physical seed, and how all of this related to God´s redemptive purpose. We should not demand out of the Genesis narrative a detailed ethical scheme. It was not written for that purpose and we run into many problems when we assume it was.

    "¢ The Sabbath first came into being at Sinai.

    As we have seen, this is simply not so. It appears in Exodus 16 and in Genesis 2. The fourth commandment of Sinai´s Decalogue argues that its existence can be traced all the way back to the Garden of Eden (Ex. 20:11) as does Mark 2:27.
     
  22. just_grace

    just_grace Puritan Board Freshman

    Chris, Law is law, when was the last you broke the speed limit?
    We know what is wrong, but we still do it....

    Some more than others, Salvation is by Grace, Yes or no?

    David
     
  23. biblelighthouse

    biblelighthouse Puritan Board Junior

    David,

    You are severely missing the point.

    All of us agree that we still struggle with sin. THAT is not the issue.

    Rather, the issue is this: What is righteous, and what is sinful?




    If you are elect, and murder someone, then you will still be forgiven and go to Heaven.

    But murder is still SIN. Therefore you are commanded by God to NOT murder.




    If you are elect, and commit adultery, then you will still be forgiven and go to Heaven.

    But adultery is still SIN. Therefore you are commanded by God to NOT commit adultery.




    If you are elect, and break the Sabbath, then you will still be forgiven and go to Heaven.

    But Sabbath-breaking is still SIN. Therefore you are commanded by God to NOT break the Sabbath.
     
  24. Me Died Blue

    Me Died Blue Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Chris, Law is law, when was the last you broke the speed limit?
    We know what is wrong, but we still do it....

    Some more than others, Salvation is by Grace, Yes or no?

    David [/quote]

    Of course - it is completely by grace. But no one here is saying we are saved in any form or to any degree by keeping the Sabbath - we are simply saying that it is what we should desire to do out of response to grace. It's exactly like the fact that murderers and adulterers are saved every day by grace alone, and are saved even if they end up committing the same sin - but we would still all agree that they should desire to repent, and that none of us (you or I) should desire to murder or commit adultery.

    Why is that the case? What would you say to an unbeliever who asked you why you, as a Christian saved by grace and freed in the Spirit, would not desire to go around murdering or committing adultery?
     
  25. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    david,
    Has salvation ever not been by grace? Was Abraham saved by grace? Noah? This does not change the responsibility to Gods law.
     
  26. Henry from Canada

    Henry from Canada Puritan Board Freshman

    Chris asked:
    "David, just answer this question, one that I think can help us get to the heart of the issue from both sides: I know you would agree that murder or adultery are not consistent with biblical "life in the Spirit." What I'm asking is, why aren't they? How is it that we know those things are not consistent with the true life of grace in the Spirit?


    Hi Chris,

    May I be so bold and attempt to answer?

    The two great commandments are:
    1) to love and honour God
    2) to love thy neighbour

    Murder, rape, theft, adultery, etc. do not compile with the two great commandments. These actions are not God-honouring, nor loving.


    Working on the Sabbath may be very loving. Feeding hungry cows on Sunday is loving (Amen, says Alison).

    Operating a family restaurant on Sunday may be loving because it allows the whole family to enjoy a meal together. Operating a minature-golf course on Sunday may also be loving because it allows people to enjoy the fresh air and exercise, etc. These activities are not acts of necessity - but they can be loving. Therefore, I suspect they are permissable.
     
  27. Henry from Canada

    Henry from Canada Puritan Board Freshman

    I think this debate comes down to an issue of legal codes.

    Legal code #1
    -----------------
    The "moral laws" of the Old Testament plus the 2 Great Commandments

    Legal code #2
    -----------------
    The 2 Great Commandments
     
  28. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Henry,
    Are you taking in anything that is being tabled here? It looks as if I am talking to hear myself. Again, Christ allows for acts of mercy, i.e. helping the needy, the sick, the widow, the orphan. If you need to milk the cow because that it may hurt your beast, milk the cow. If you need to go out to the store for a first aid kit, go get it! define 'loving' along the lines of Christs mandate for the sabbath.

    The two great commandments do not usurp Gods moral law; they support it! What do you think Jesus meant when he said:

    Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
    Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
    Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
     
  29. just_grace

    just_grace Puritan Board Freshman

    Sorry tried replying! Will try later.
     
  30. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    Then its an act of mercy.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page