Or the deacons where they are currently members ...Where are the churches that sent these men to seminary?
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Or the deacons where they are currently members ...Where are the churches that sent these men to seminary?
accepting food stamps to get an education in a field that you aren't guaranteed any type of job and if you get a job aren't guaranteed any type of reasonable pay seems odd. The whole seminary model is broken. churches don't supports and seminaries dont educate in areas that need to be taught.
And just for the sake of argument, for all those saying you should turn aside Food Stamps, would you turn aside public education? Pell Grants for undergraduate study? State subsidy grants for undergrad work? Tax credits for buying certain items? Tax credits/deductions of any kind? All these things are paid for at some level on the public dole.
And just for the sake of argument, for all those saying you should turn aside Food Stamps, would you turn aside public education? Pell Grants for undergraduate study? State subsidy grants for undergrad work? Tax credits for buying certain items? Tax credits/deductions of any kind? All these things are paid for at some level on the public dole.
Public education: Yes, turn it aside for the same reasons and others.
Pell Grants: Yes, for the same reasons.
State subsidies for undergrad work: Yep.
Tax credits: Apples and Oranges. This is not taking someone else's money it is not sending in yours.
Our nation has become so well trained by socialist tax masters that we don't even flinch at much of the tyranny that is foisted upon us. It is a factor in the increased inflation we have been experiencing for the past 100 years that is rarely discussed. Subsidies and 'assistance' programs are the primary reason for educational expenses increases. They do the same thing in other areas of the economy as well. Just because it is the normal way of doing things, just because it is legal, just because it seems 'wise' does not make it right. By taking that type of assistance one is becoming a slave. Even food stamps enslave.
The chains of tyranny have been forged and are being welded shut on many Christians because of acquiescence to financial assistance. Oh, the rings on ankles and wrists might be comfortable right now because they are lined with velvet, ermine, or sueded, but that will wear away and then the cold iron of slavery will be known.
And just for the sake of argument, for all those saying you should turn aside Food Stamps, would you turn aside public education? Pell Grants for undergraduate study? State subsidy grants for undergrad work? Tax credits for buying certain items? Tax credits/deductions of any kind? All these things are paid for at some level on the public dole.
Public education: Yes, turn it aside for the same reasons and others.
Pell Grants: Yes, for the same reasons.
State subsidies for undergrad work: Yep.
Tax credits: Apples and Oranges. This is not taking someone else's money it is not sending in yours.
Our nation has become so well trained by socialist tax masters that we don't even flinch at much of the tyranny that is foisted upon us. It is a factor in the increased inflation we have been experiencing for the past 100 years that is rarely discussed. Subsidies and 'assistance' programs are the primary reason for educational expenses increases. They do the same thing in other areas of the economy as well. Just because it is the normal way of doing things, just because it is legal, just because it seems 'wise' does not make it right. By taking that type of assistance one is becoming a slave. Even food stamps enslave.
The chains of tyranny have been forged and are being welded shut on many Christians because of acquiescence to financial assistance. Oh, the rings on ankles and wrists might be comfortable right now because they are lined with velvet, ermine, or sueded, but that will wear away and then the cold iron of slavery will be known.
Damon, I know what you are saying, but the fact of the matter is that 3,000.00 in aid does not equal 3,000.00. It is not a revenue neutral programme. The federal and state bureaucratic overhead on the programme is excessive, as are all government initiatives.
Every city. Liberty online has provided a way for anyone to get an undergrad in religion and this degree is accepted at most if not all major seminaries.
I wasn't clear in my post - I was referring to a seminary education. That clarification aside, I wouldn't include Liberty as being broadly reformed.
Mark, it enslaves because it makes those you use it come to rely upon the source. It is a pernicious evil. I have seen this first hand from folks who one would never think could fall for the trap.
Mark, it enslaves because it makes those you use it come to rely upon the source. It is a pernicious evil. I have seen this first hand from folks who one would never think could fall for the trap.
But surely anything can be abused and people can make mistakes and become overly dependent on anything.
That doesn't mean it can't be right for someone to use a benefit the government (even if it is a very imperfect government) provides to help out in their situation.
Or the deacons where they are currently members ...
Or the deacons where they are currently members ...
Are we talking about widows and orphans here? Are we talking about men unable to work to support their families? Or are we talking about men who have made choices?
Instead of being full time students and part time workers, perhaps these men should be full time workers and part time students. I don't see the shortcoming by the deacons.
Or the deacons where they are currently members ...
Are we talking about widows and orphans here? Are we talking about men unable to work to support their families? Or are we talking about men who have made choices?
Instead of being full time students and part time workers, perhaps these men should be full time workers and part time students. I don't see the shortcoming by the deacons.
I can assure you that all of the men with families in seminary are part time students and full-time workers. The average student in seminary takes five years to get a three year degree. All of us work full time in the sense that we work 40 hours, its just that we tend to have peon type jobs. I was in restaurant management for 15 years and in my last job I made over $60000 a year. The problem with a job like that is that it takes all of your time. You are lucky if you can even go to church one or two Sundays a month, much less try to manage even a part-time school workload. The only way we can manage school at all is to work as many part-time jobs as we can get and work around our school schedule. Unfortunately, these jobs tend to pay in the $8-9 and hour range, which doesn't go far with a large family.
Exactly. You are constrained by the system. Were the government not robbing you of the money you pay out on social security, medicare, state income tax, etc., none of the seminarians at your seminary would need the food stamps; there jobs would be enough.
Honestly, this is also one of the reasons I am in favor of Student Loans. You run yourself ragged trying to keep up with Seminary tuition on 8 to 9 dollar an hour jobs, unable to put the full effort into your studies, when even a relatively low paid full time pastor (say the 40,000 dollar per year area) can make payments on that same sum twice as fast (a full time (40 hour) 9 dollar per hour job is less than half, yearly). This is especially true for subsidized (interest free) loans.
took 4 years to do my MDiv - that included classes during all the winter and summer sessions as well - because I had to work to support my family.
Exactly. You are constrained by the system. Were the government not robbing you of the money you pay out on social security, medicare, state income tax, etc., none of the seminarians at your seminary would need the food stamps; there jobs would be enough
I can assure you that all of the men with families in seminary are part time students and full-time workers.
took 4 years to do my MDiv - that included classes during all the winter and summer sessions as well - because I had to work to support my family.
What about the Army chaplaincy? Did that pay for part of it?
You raise an excellent point. The poor in this country pay little in net taxes due to real tax rate. The overwhelming tax burden (via the real tax rate) is borne by the top 3-5% of taxpayers. A very large group of people pay little income tax at all, and a surprising number pay none.Exactly. You are constrained by the system. Were the government not robbing you of the money you pay out on social security, medicare, state income tax, etc., none of the seminarians at your seminary would need the food stamps; there jobs would be enough
That is not true. I only paid 350 in taxes last year. When you are only working peon jobs, you don't have taxes to pay.
Nope.
No need to call. I am enrolled in 18 hrs and am not working full time anywhere. I am married.
Exactly. You are constrained by the system. Were the government not robbing you of the money you pay out on social security, medicare, state income tax, etc., none of the seminarians at your seminary would need the food stamps; there jobs would be enough
That is not true. I only paid 350 in taxes last year. When you are only working peon jobs, you don't have taxes to pay.