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Deleted member 9611
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Just so we are clear, before and after the millennial period in your view, Satan is a mad dog off the chain?
Some questions for Amillennialists...
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Just so we are clear, before and after the millennial period in your view, Satan is a mad dog off the chain?
Jerusalem Blade
Puritan Board Doctor
Hi Mason,
Before the life, crucifixion, death, and resurrection of the Son of God – before the millennial period – Satan was not bound, and had his way among the nations, not including Israel. Jesus came that "he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil". Hebrews 2:14-15KJV:
After the millennial period wherein Satan is bound from deceiving the nations of the world and moving them to attack the children of God worldwide – God's new Israel having been sealed and safe from deception and, ultimately, harm – Satan is loosed to gather the nations to war on the saints, but it is a trap to gather and justly destroy all their enemies, and a furnace to purify His beloved bride, separating her from the chaff of false professors.
Before the life, crucifixion, death, and resurrection of the Son of God – before the millennial period – Satan was not bound, and had his way among the nations, not including Israel. Jesus came that "he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil". Hebrews 2:14-15KJV:
"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."
After the millennial period wherein Satan is bound from deceiving the nations of the world and moving them to attack the children of God worldwide – God's new Israel having been sealed and safe from deception and, ultimately, harm – Satan is loosed to gather the nations to war on the saints, but it is a trap to gather and justly destroy all their enemies, and a furnace to purify His beloved bride, separating her from the chaff of false professors.
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Deleted member 9611
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You keep conflating different things. Satan’s binding is both specific and general depending on the paragraph you are writing. On the one hand, it’s only a binding with respect to deceiving the nations and on the other it’s a definitive destruction per Heb. 2 like you just wrote. Which is it? This is why folks like myself get so hot and bothered by views like yours; on the one hand Satan’s binding is solely with respect to nations as nations, but on the other it’s so that God’s people (the elect) are safe and secure. The necessary implication of this second point is that the elect are NOT secure once Satan is loosed. I’m afraid this conversation has run its course though. Wish you a blessed Lord’s Day.
Jerusalem Blade
Puritan Board Doctor
Hello Mason,
You say I am conflating things, i.e., the casting out and the binding of Satan.
Conflation in logic (which precision suits us here) is the practice of treating two distinct concepts as one, which produces errors or misunderstandings as a fusion of distinct subjects tends to obscure analysis of relationships which are emphasized by contrasts.
I appreciate you have a good mind, and I will try to make this amenable to reason. You stated,
“Satan’s binding is both specific and general depending on the paragraph you are writing. On the one hand, it’s only a binding with respect to deceiving the nations and on the other it’s a definitive destruction per Heb 2 like you just wrote. Which is it?”
It is in YOUR mind that this conflation is occurring, as you are fusing Satan’s binding per Rev 20:2 – which is a distinct action – with his being cast out as prince or ruler of this world per John 12:31, which is an entirely different action with distinctly different effects (nor is it the binding of Mark 3:27, but another time for that).
I addressed this once before in my post #18:
“Satan has been cast out from his rulership of the world (John 12:31) having the power of death (Heb 2:14,15) taken from him. That is not reversible. His binding is different than his being cast out. His binding is deliberately limited; he is allowed to deceive those not elected by God and sealed by the Holy Spirit; he is not allowed to deceive nations qua nations, as the power of the Gospel has swept across the earth, loosing multitudes from his thrall, their being translated into the kingdom of God’s dear Son (Col 1:13).”
You are doing the conflating, not me! As Jesus has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel (2 Tim 1:10), Satan has been stripped of his legal power and authority. This is not the binding spoken of in Rev 20:2. Although cast out / deposed as “ruler of this world” through the resurrection authority and power of Christ the King, he nonetheless continues as a guerrilla fighter (so to speak) against the people of God and humankind generally, doing whatever damage he can – under the Lord’s sovereign control. In this capacity he can kill and have imprisoned the saints, but he cannot harm them in any way that a good resurrection cannot immediately reverse.
It is in his “guerrilla” capacity that Satan is bound in Rev 20:2. He has already been cast out / deposed as ruler through the power of death taken from him; now his deceiving power as a guerrilla fighter has been limited. How has that been accomplished? Through the preaching of the Gospel – the full message of Christ’s victory and redemption – proclaimed throughout the world in the power of His resurrection by the Holy Spirit anointing the preachers and witnesses thereof. The nations have been infiltrated by the warriors of Christ announcing the Kingdom of God, holy insurgents on demon-world proclaiming liberty to the captives in the name of Jesus, so that the earlier hold of Satan on souls was broken by the Strongman from Heaven spoiling his house – across the world – and loosing his captives, bringing them into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Get this clear, Mason, please: the conflation of the “casting out” and the “binding” is in your understanding, not mine, and is a classic category error.
Finally: we – God’s elect children – are secure in His keeping, so that “there shall not a hair of your head perish” (Luke 21:18), even though we be put to death for our love and loyalty to our Saviour. Once Satan is loosed – as it seems is commencing now – we remain utterly secure from his wiles and murderous intent. I repeat again Paul’s words by the Spirit of Christ:
As our Lord says (Romans 12;1), we are to present our bodies living sacrifices as part of our reasonable service to Him. We gladly concur, as His “lovingkindness is better than life” (Psalm 63:3).
You say I am conflating things, i.e., the casting out and the binding of Satan.
Conflation in logic (which precision suits us here) is the practice of treating two distinct concepts as one, which produces errors or misunderstandings as a fusion of distinct subjects tends to obscure analysis of relationships which are emphasized by contrasts.
I appreciate you have a good mind, and I will try to make this amenable to reason. You stated,
“Satan’s binding is both specific and general depending on the paragraph you are writing. On the one hand, it’s only a binding with respect to deceiving the nations and on the other it’s a definitive destruction per Heb 2 like you just wrote. Which is it?”
It is in YOUR mind that this conflation is occurring, as you are fusing Satan’s binding per Rev 20:2 – which is a distinct action – with his being cast out as prince or ruler of this world per John 12:31, which is an entirely different action with distinctly different effects (nor is it the binding of Mark 3:27, but another time for that).
I addressed this once before in my post #18:
“Satan has been cast out from his rulership of the world (John 12:31) having the power of death (Heb 2:14,15) taken from him. That is not reversible. His binding is different than his being cast out. His binding is deliberately limited; he is allowed to deceive those not elected by God and sealed by the Holy Spirit; he is not allowed to deceive nations qua nations, as the power of the Gospel has swept across the earth, loosing multitudes from his thrall, their being translated into the kingdom of God’s dear Son (Col 1:13).”
You are doing the conflating, not me! As Jesus has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel (2 Tim 1:10), Satan has been stripped of his legal power and authority. This is not the binding spoken of in Rev 20:2. Although cast out / deposed as “ruler of this world” through the resurrection authority and power of Christ the King, he nonetheless continues as a guerrilla fighter (so to speak) against the people of God and humankind generally, doing whatever damage he can – under the Lord’s sovereign control. In this capacity he can kill and have imprisoned the saints, but he cannot harm them in any way that a good resurrection cannot immediately reverse.
It is in his “guerrilla” capacity that Satan is bound in Rev 20:2. He has already been cast out / deposed as ruler through the power of death taken from him; now his deceiving power as a guerrilla fighter has been limited. How has that been accomplished? Through the preaching of the Gospel – the full message of Christ’s victory and redemption – proclaimed throughout the world in the power of His resurrection by the Holy Spirit anointing the preachers and witnesses thereof. The nations have been infiltrated by the warriors of Christ announcing the Kingdom of God, holy insurgents on demon-world proclaiming liberty to the captives in the name of Jesus, so that the earlier hold of Satan on souls was broken by the Strongman from Heaven spoiling his house – across the world – and loosing his captives, bringing them into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Get this clear, Mason, please: the conflation of the “casting out” and the “binding” is in your understanding, not mine, and is a classic category error.
Finally: we – God’s elect children – are secure in His keeping, so that “there shall not a hair of your head perish” (Luke 21:18), even though we be put to death for our love and loyalty to our Saviour. Once Satan is loosed – as it seems is commencing now – we remain utterly secure from his wiles and murderous intent. I repeat again Paul’s words by the Spirit of Christ:
“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
“Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8:35,36,37,38,39).
As our Lord says (Romans 12;1), we are to present our bodies living sacrifices as part of our reasonable service to Him. We gladly concur, as His “lovingkindness is better than life” (Psalm 63:3).
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