Taking notes during a sermon is wrong? Right?

[Deleted member 6112]

This is such interesting timing. We study the Westminster Standards after food and fellowship following our evening worship service each Lord's Day. In the section on WSC 89 and 90 (the latter being the immediate referent) I spoke a little to the first comment about attending to the Word for it to be effectual (with the caveat it has to be first the Holy Spirit making it so in WSC 89) and the need to give proper attention including during the preaching of it (per WSC 89). I mentioned for some that may involve taking notes, although attentiveness often involves the kind of listening that has the eyes and face engaged with the preacher. I commented that note taking is fine, though I do not prefer to take notes heavily myself as it distracts me from being preached to in a sense: I like to just sit back (or rather forward) and take it in as "Thus saith the Lord!".

While discussing, I mentioned years ago I stopped providing the sermon outline for note taking because I noticed many people were so concerned to try and take down all the details that they weren't looking up and interacting with the preaching for the "divine dynamic" so to speak as much as I thought best in that preaching is more than lecturing. I encouraged what I do: write something or things that really hit(s) me (if I have anything to write with but usually I can't with babies in my lap like recently on vacation helping my wife). But I usually would hunt for a bulletin to scribble a phrase or reference down to remember if I really want to not forget something very specific. But otherwise, my main concern is the Lord speaks to them what they need to hear and the main moves and one main point (the title of the sermon in the bulletin so no note taking required for that: this also relates to my "Prutonian Preaching" training that the one main point is what you should be driving at, and I think there's another stream a while back about Dr. Dennis Prutow's book, So Pastor What's Your Point? that I helped with publishing while at RPTS). The point being that folks won't remember most of what we say (which is pretty humbling) so Dr. Prutow says make the whole sermon move (with moves, not many points) to lead to driving home (screwing it in the skull is more how he spoke about it) the one point (homiletical point derived from the exegetical point). In a sense, one might make lots of notes but if they one main point isn't in their skull with them throughout the week what's the point!? But also, later when folks sometimes want details from a sermon I preached I'm happy to email it in PDF to them (after I've fixed the typos!) as mostly type my sermon but also talk off it as the Spirit leads (that's another whole issue I know).

All this to say, after a few years of observation while preaching, I felt convicted to "relieve" the saints from the apparent need to write down as much as possible filling in between what I supplied with the EP, moves with Scripture references, and HP as it seemed to weigh them down and distract them (and frankly I guess I also found it distracting). They did not appear weighted down or in drudgery, rather they were earnest about it. This is not to discourage note taking, which is a way of being very attentive and trying to not miss things and be able to better remember things. But there seems to be a balance somewhere to encourage (that's what I was just referencing to the saints last Lord's Day evening--I'm not sure they remembered I used to do that it's been so long ago as I'm nearly here 15 years now). Just volunteering this for consideration with the question and comments. Note taking isn't sinful (that would be silly). But I do appreciate the other consideration per my observations offered above.

One other way to think about it: I can't remember who wrote/said this, but we can see preaching as providing a nice meal. People sit down and get much nourishment out of it, but they don't necessarily remember all the pieces eaten in particular or even the items on the menu. But they sure are thankful to have been fed (not realizing how much went into the recipe, making it, and preparing and serving it). And the "cook" sure is glad they are well fed and nourished and the ongoing family fellowship continues to grow. It's not that simple, but helpful I think. Maybe my pastoral advice is not to approach a sermon like a lecture and feel you need to get ready to pass a test. But take notes if you like with whatever YOU want to remember to take away--AND please also the homiletical point! ;-)

These are really helpful thoughts, brother. What you said about the 'one point' resonates very much with something I was reading in Shedd's homiletics earlier. He said that the sermon ought to be driving at one point, and that being the case, the topical sermon type is the model of all good preaching, even textual/expository preaching. Getting bogged down in a hundred exegetical details distracts from the one point--the message of the sermon. Very helpful. Thank you.

 

[Ploutos]

I am intrigued by some of the distinctions being made in this thread between intellectual and spiritual engagement. As a lay person I have sat under numerous "lectures", some by seminary professors, and they have been far from mere intellectual exercises. They have influenced my prayer life, my understanding of scripture, and my daily practice.

That's not to equate a lecture with a sermon, but I perceive a tendency in this thread to assume some opposition between intellectual engagement and spiritual engagement - with note taking being viewed slightly suspiciously as an aid to the former at the latter's expense. If it's not explicitly stated, it seems to be a very noticeable undercurrent.

Take notes or not, but your mind should be as fully engaged as circumstances permit when your pastor is preaching. The intellect and the emotions do not stand in opposition.

 

[Polanus1561]

To able to backtrack - link - connect the details of a rich 40 minute sermon with no note taking is quite the task.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Two options. You should be able to load a version of the Logos that works with Word. If not, start a thread in General with the title ignore and just post these there rather than post to whatever thread is available. What I do is I have a Wordpress site that I have a junk page for checking scripture references (Wordpress has the Logos plugin like PB does).

Please disregard this post. I am using it to see if there are any broken links within my scripture references for a book, and PB does an excellent job at this. It should only take me a minute or 2. Will delete right when finished.

BOOK I.
CHAP. I.
Gal. 5:17; Rom. 7:23; Isa. 57:21; Isa. 28:15; Luk. 11:21; Rev. 12:17.
CHAP. II
Job. 13:26; 2 Cor. 12:7; Deut. 8:2; Deut. 13:3; Rom. 5:3,4; 1 Sam. 17:37; Psalm. 27:9.
CHAP. III.
Eph. 6:10; Jam. 4:7; 1 Pet. 5:8; Gen. 3:4,5; Joh. 8:44; Isa. 37:21; 1 Cor. 2:9; Rom. 6:23; Jos. 10:24,25; Joh. 16:33.
CHAP. IIII.
Gen. 3:15; Zech. 3:1; Matth. 13:39; Joh. 8:44; 1 Pet. 5:8; Rev. 12:3; Job. 1:10; Exod. 32:25; Num. 25:1,2; Num. 31:16; Rev. 2:14; Matth. 4:2; 1 Thess. 3:5; Job. 1:7; Rev. 12:10; Job. 1:10; 1 Thess. 5:22; Eph. 6:12.
CHAP. V.
Isa. 27:1; Job. 41; 1 Pet. 5:8; Rev. 12:4; Luk. 11:21; Joh. 12:31; Eph. 6:12; Matth. 25:41; Matth. 12:24; Matth. 12:45; Mar. 16:9; Luk. 8:30; Eph. 6:12; 2 Cor. 4:4; Zech. 3:1; 2 Cor. 12:7; Rev. 12:7; Phil. 2:12; 1 Cor. 10:13; Jam. 4:7; Col. 1:11; Phil. 4:13; 1 Cor. 15:57; Rom. 8:37; Eph. 6:10,11; Psalm. 18:2; Rom. 8:31; Exod. 14:14; 2 Chron. 20:15; Psalm. 34:7; 2 Kings. 6:16.
CHAP. VI.
Joh. 12:31; Gen. 13:10; 1 Joh. 5:19; Matth. 6:24; 1 Joh. 2:15; Jam. 4:4; Joh. 15:19; Psalm. 75:8; Rev. 14:10; Mar. 8:36; Num. 11:5; Heb. 12:6,7, 8; Joh. 15:19; Heb. 11:25,26; Matth. 5:4,10; Luk. 6:21,25; 2 Cor. 4:17.
CHAP. VII.
Gal. 5:17; Jam. 1:14,15; Psalm. 41:9; Mar. 8:34; 1 Pet. 2:11; Luk. 11:13; Prov. 24:21.
CHAP. VIII.
Rev. 12:9; 2 Kings. 6:12; Rom. 8:7; Job. 28:28; Psalm. 111:10; Prov. 28:7; Psalm. 1:2; Rom. 1:22; 1 Cor. 1:19.
CHAP. IX.
Eph. 6:11; 2 Cor. 10:4; Eph. 6:12; Job. 41:17,20; 1 Sam. 17:39,44; Psalm. 41:1; Eph. 5:16.
CHAP. X.
1 Tim. 3:15; Heb. 13:16; Joh. 4:24; Jos. 24:14; Mic. 6:7,8; Joh. 17:17.
CHAP. XI.
Isa. 59:17; Rom. 7:15,22; Rom. 7:17; 1 Joh. 3:9.
CHAP. XII.
Luk. 10:5; Rom. 10:15; Luk. 1:7,9; Rom. 10:10; 1 Pet. 3:15; Matth. 10:32; Mar. 8:35; Matth. 19:29.
CHAP. XIII.
Rom. 13:14; 1 Pet. 5:9; Matth. 6:13; Matth. 13:38; Joh. 8:44.
CHAP. XIIII.
Isa. 59:17; Rom. 8:24; 1 Thess. 5:8; Act. 28:20; 2 Cor. 4:17.
CHAP. XV.
Gal. 3:10; Rom. 8:8; Ezek. 18:23,32; 1 Tim. 1:15; Matth. 9:13; Matth. 6:24; 1 Joh. 2:15; Jam. 4:4; Matth. 5:10; 1 Tim. 3:12; Matth. 19:29; Joh. 10:27; Joh. 8:47; Matth. 13:44,45; Rom. 2:13; Jam. 1:22; Matth. 7:21; 1 Pet. 5:5; 1 Tim. 6:10; 1 Pet. 5:7; 1 Tim. 5:8.
CHAP. XVI.
Eph. 6:18; Psalm. 50:15; Matth. 6:13; Luk. 22:40; Jam. 1:17; Matth. 7:7; Joh. 16:23; Luk. 11:13; Luk. 18:1; 1 Thess. 5:17; Psalm. 50:15; Isa. 29:13; 1 Tim. 2:8; Joh. 9:31; Rom. 8:26; 1 Pet. 4:7; 1 Pet. 5:8; Psalm. 6:6; Psalm. 88:1; Psalm. 119:62; Eph. 5:14; Eph. 2:1; 1 Thess. 5:6; Rom. 13:12; Rom. 12:12; Psalm. 27:14; 1 Thess. 5:17; Luk. 18:1; Isa. 28:16; Isa. 30:18; 1 Cor. 10:13; 1 Cor. 12:8,9; Hab. 2:3; Jam. 5:16; Jam. 4:7.
CHAP. XVII.
1 Tim. 6:9,10; Act. 19:25; Deut. 16:19; Psalm. 127:1,2; Jam. 1:14; Jer. 17:9; 1 Tim. 6:9,10; Eph. 5:5; Col. 3:5; Matth. 19:24; Luk. 12:20.
CHAP. XVIII.
2 Thess. 2:26; Rom. 14:23; Heb. 11:6; Rom. 5:10; Col. 1:20; Matth. 3:16; 1 Pet. 2:12; 1 Joh. 4:20; 1 Joh. 3:10; Rom. 2:13; Matth. 7:21; Jam. 1:22; Luk. 12:47; Matth. 11:21; Lev. 10:3; Psalm. 19:13; 2 Cor. 11:14.
CHAP. XIX.
N/A
CHAP. XX.
N/A
CHAP. XXI.
Job. 1:10; 2 Tim. 3:12; 2 Tim. 2:12; 1 Pet. 5:8; Job. 1:7; Eccl. 9:12; Matth. 16:23; 1 Kings. 13:18; 2 Cor. 3:9; Act. 5:3,5.
CHAP. XXII.
Eph. 6:10,11; 1 Pet. 5:8; Rev. 2:7; Rev. 3:5,12,21; Eph. 4:27; Psalm. 137:9; 1 Pet. 5:8; Rev. 2:7,10,11,17; Rev. 3:5,21; Joh. 8:44; Mar. 1:24,25; Act. 16:17,18; Matth. 9:13; Isa. 53:5; 2 Cor. 5:21; Gal. 3:13; Col. 1:21,22; 1 Cor. 1:30; Joh. 14:2; 1 Joh. 2:1; Matth. 12:45.
CHAP. XXIII.
2 Cor. 8:12; Matth. 5:6; Rom. 8:23; 2 Cor. 1:22; 2 Cor. 5:5; Neh. 1:12; Psalm. 119:6; 1 Cor. 5:5; 2 Cor. 3:5; Phil. 2:13; Phil. 1:6; Jam. 1:17; Mal. 3:6; Rom. 11:29; Joh. 7:38; Rev. 21:6; Prov. 23:26; Isa. 49 15; Isa. 66:13; Mal. 3:17; Psalm. 23:1; Rom. 7:24; 1 Tim. 2:6; Luk. 4:18; 2 Cor. 12:8,9; Psalm. 144:1.
BOOK II.
CHAP. I.
Gal. 2:20; Joh. 3:16; 1 Joh. 5:10; 1 Joh. 4:19; Rom. 13:8; Act. 5:14; Phil. 1:23; Rom. 8:28.
CHAP. II.
Hos. 14:5; 1 Joh. 4:10; Rom. 5:8,10; 1 Joh. 4:8; 1 Pet. 5:10; Joh. 13:1; Rom. 11:5,6; Jer. 31:31; Rom. 4:13; Eph. 1:7,8; Eph. 2:1,5; Eph. 2:3,4; 2 Tim. 1:9; Deut. 7:7,8; Rom. 3:24; Tit. 3:7; Rom. 4:3,5; Tit. 2:14; Eph. 2:1,3; 2 Cor. 3:5; Phil. 2:13; Eph. 3:25,26; 1 Cor. 15:10; Phil. 1:6; Rom. 6:23; Eph 2:8; Tit. 2:11; 2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 3:5; Jer. 2:13; 1 Cor. 1:30,31; 1 Cor. 1:4,5; Rom. 5:21; Eph. 2:7; Eph. 1:5; Gal. 3:16; Eph. 1:9,10; 2 Tim. 1:9; Rom. 5:18,19; Isa. 53:5; 1 Cor. 1:30; Col. 1:20,21; Eph. 1:6; Eph. 2:12,13; Gal. 4:4,5; Eph. 1:5; 1 Cor. 1:30; 1 Joh. 5:11; 2 Tim. 2:1; Heb. 4:16; Eph. 1:6.
CHAP. III.
2 Tim. 3:12; Rom. 8:29; 2 Cor. 4:17; 2 Tim. 2:12; Heb. 12:6,8; Prov. 17:12; Prov. 18:14; Rev. 3:19; Heb. 12:6; Jer. 4:4; Matth. 12:20; Psalm. 51:17; Isa. 61:1,2,3; Job. 1:8; Job. 6:4; Job. 9:17,18; Job. 13:24,26; Job. 16:9; Job. 19:11; Psalm. 6:3; Psalm. 38:2,3; Psalm. 88:7,14,15,16; Psalm. 77:7,8,9,10; Act. 9:15; Gal. 1:15; 2 Cor. 6:4,5,6,7,8; 2 Cor. 12:7, 8; Rom. 7:24; 1 Cor. 10:13; 1 Pet. 5:9; Isa. 53:3; Matth. 3:17; Rom. 8:29; 2 Tim. 2:12; 1 Pet. 2:22; Isa. 53:5; 1 Pet. 3:18; Rom. 5:10; Rom. 5:3; Prov. 28:14; Jam. 5:11; Job. 10:18; Psalm. 88:14; Psalm. 32:3,4; Jer. 20:14,15,18; Eccl. 9:1; Eccl. 3:19; Rom. 8; Joh. 3:16; Rom. 8:38.
CHAP. IIII.
N/A
CHAP. V.
1 Tim. 2:4; Matth. 22:14; Matth. 7:13; Matth. 25:34,41; 1 Cor. 6:9,10; Rev. 21:8; Eph. 1:5,6; Matth. 6:16; 1 Pet. 2:21; Eph. 1:4.
CHAP. VI.
1 Cor. 2:16; Rom. 4:16; Heb. 6:17,18; Matth. 5:18; Rom. 5:1; Rom. 8:38; Eph. 3:12; Heb. 4:16; Heb. 10:22; Heb. 6:19; 1 Pet. 1:13; 1 Joh. 3:14; 2 Tim. 1:12; Joh. 3:16; Deut. 27:26; Gal. 3:10; 2 Cor. 13:5; 1 Cor. 11:28; Rom. 14:23; Heb. 11:6.
CHAP. VII.
Mar. 1:15; 1 Joh. 3:23; Mar. 16:16; Joh. 6:63; Joh. 6:40; Joh. 3:36; 1 Joh. 5:10; Rom. 8:30; Matth. 25:34; Act. 13:48; Heb. 4:16; Heb. 10:22; Rom. 4:20; Jam. 1:5; Matth. 21:21; Matth. 14:31; Luk. 12:29; Jam. 1:7; Rom. 14:23; Act. 15:9; Gal. 5:6; Heb. 11:1; 1 Joh. 5:13; Heb. 11:1; Heb. 10:22; Eph. 3:12; 1 Joh. 3:14; Rom. 5:2; Rom. 8:33,34,35,38; Heb. 6:18; Phil. 3:12; Joh. 10:28; Isa. 63:1; 1 Pet. 1:13; Rom. 4:18,19,20,21,22,23; Gal. 3:16; Gen. 22:18; Psalm. 23:4; Psalm. 27:1; Psalm. 125:1; Job. 13:15; Job. 19:25,26; Rom. 8:38; Eph. 4:5; Luk. 7:48,50; Matth. 9:2; Matth. 16:19; Joh. 20:23; Eph. 3:12; Rom. 4:11; Gal. 3:27; Joh. 1:12; Joh. 6:54; 1 Joh. 5:14,15; Jam. 1:5; Matth. 6:12; Rom. 8:30; Rom. 8:8,13; 1 Cor. 6:9; Matth. 7:23; Rev. 21:27; Joh. 3:18; Joh. 16:8,9.
CHAP. VIII.
Eph. 1:5; 1 Cor. 2:10,12; Joh. 16:13; Psalm. 145:17; 1 Cor. 1:9; Psalm. 19:7; Rom. 8:15,16; Gal. 4:6; 2 Cor. 1:22; Eph. 1:13; Eph. 4:30; 2 Cor. 5:5; Rom. 4:11; Esth. 8:8; Joh. 6:27; Gen. 38:17,18 2 Kings. 14:14; 2 Cor. 1:22; Eph. 1:17,18; Isa. 44:3; Ezek. 16:9; Matth. 3:11; Act. 2:3; 1 Joh. 2:20,27; Gal. 5:17; 2 Cor. 3:6; 1 Cor. 3:5; Joh. 6:63; Gal. 3:2; Eph. 1:13; 1 Cor. 2:12; Eph. 1:17,18; 1 Joh. 3:24; Rom. 8:38,39.
CHAP. IX.
Rom. 8:15,16; Jam. 1:17; Matth. 7:7; Luk. 11:13; Joh. 6:56; Rom. 8:1; Joh. 10:14; 1 Joh. 4:19; Rom. 5:8; 2 Cor. 13:5; Rom. 8:1; 1 Pet. 4:2,3; Joh. 10:4; Joh. 15:4,5; Phil. 3:20; Joh. 15:5; Rom. 6:56; Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 2:19; Heb. 12:14; Rom. 8:1; Matth. 7:17; Joh. 15:4,5; Isa. 29:13; 2 Tim. 3:5; Eph. 4:14; Luk. 1:74,75.
CHAP. X.
Joh. 10:3,4; Matth. 13:45; Rom. 8:26; Rom. 10:13; Isa. 29:13; Rom. 8:14; Rev. 3:17; 2 Cor. 7:10; Joh. 7:37; Rev. 21:6; Phil. 3:8; Rom. 8:35; Rom. 7:23; Gal. 5:17; Joh. 1:12; 1 Joh. 2:5; Mal. 3:17; Psalm. 119:6; Jam. 2:10; Gal. 3:3; Matth. 24:13; Luk. 9:62; 2 Cor. 6:8; 1 Joh. 3:14; 1 Cor. 13:4; Gal. 6:10; 1 Joh. 3:17; Matth. 25:34,35; 1 Cor. 13:5,7; Rom. 12:19,21; Rom. 12:14; Isa. 11:6,8; Matth. 6:14; Matth. 10:41; Dan. 12:3; Matth. 10:43; Gal. 4:15; Rom. 10:15; 2 Cor. 5:20; 1 Cor. 2:14; 1 Cor. 1:27,28; Rev. 22:20; Matth. 6:10; 2 Tim. 4:8; Rom. 8:23; 1 Cor. 15:53; Luk. 21:28; Matth. 24:30; Rev. 6:16; 1 Cor. 2:9.
CHAP. XI.
1 Cor. 10:12; Prov. 28:14; Rom. 11:20; Phil. 2:12; 1 Pet. 1:17; 1 Cor. 10:12; Prov. 28:14; Rom. 11:20; Phil. 2:12; Psalm. 2:11; Psalm. 5:7; 1 Joh. 4:18; Mal. 1:6; Psalm. 34:9; Psalm. 112:1; 1 Pet. 1:17; Job. 9:21; Job. 9:2; 1 Cor. 4:3,4; Jam. 2:10; Rom. 5:1,2; Rom. 8:33; Joel. 2:14; Amos 5:15; Jon. 3:9; 1 Kings. 21:29; 2 Sam. 12:22; 2 Sam. 16:12; Psalm. 16:11; Act. 8:22; Ezek. 33:11; Eccl. 5:5.
CHAP. XII.
Gal. 3:10; Rom. 3:20; Jer. 9:24; 1 Joh. 5:10; Eph. 3:12; Rom. 5:2; Psalm. 143:2; 1 Cor. 4:4; 2 Cor. 4:8,9; Rom. 7:18; Rom. 4:20; 1 Cor. 2:16; Rom. 8:16; 1 Cor. 2:10,12; 2 Cor. 2:16; 1 Cor. 1:18.
CHAP. XIII.
Matth. 1:21; Act. 4:12; 1 Tim. 2:5; Eph. 1:7; Luk. 1:68; 1 Pet. 1:18.
CHAP. XIIII.
Joh. 10:28; Matth. 20:2; Matth. 26:28; Luk. 2:34; Joh. 10:15; Joh. 15:14; Rom. 8:32,33; Matth. 1:21; Eph. 5:25; Joh. 11:52; Rom. 3:22,25,26; Heb. 5:9; Joh. 3:18; Rom. 2:9; 1 Joh. 3:8; 2 Tim. 2:26; Matth. 7:23; 1 Joh. 2:1,2; Rom. 8:35; Joh. 17:9; Heb. 7:25; Mar. 16:16; Joh. 3:36; Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14; Psalm. 32:1; Act. 2:47; Eph. 5:25; 1 Tim. 2:6; Heb. 2:9; 1 Joh. 2:2; Joh. 11:52; Rev. 5:9; Gal. 3:26,28; Joh. 3:16; Rom. 3:22; Gal. 3:22; Act. 10:43; Mar. 1:5; Matth. 4:23; Act. 10:38; Joh. 12:32; Isa. 54:13; Jer. 31:34; Joel. 2:28; Phil. 2:21; Joh. 3:32; Matth. 26:28; 2 Pet. 2:1; Rom. 14:15; Heb. 10:29; 1 Cor. 15:22.
CHAP. XV.
Rom. 6:5,6; 1 Cor. 1:30; Tit. 2:14; Luk. 1:74,75; 1 Pet. 2:24; Rom. 6:18; Heb. 9:14; Heb. 10:10,14; Act. 5:31; Eph. 5:25,26; 1 Joh. 1:7; Heb. 10:22; 1 Joh. 3:8; Rom. 8:9; 1 Cor. 6:20; Luk. 21:28; Joh. 8:34; 1 Joh. 3:8; Rom. 6:16; Eph. 4:17,18; Luk. 1:77,78; Phil. 2:13; Rom. 7:18,22; Rom. 1:24,26; Gal. 5:24; Rom. 6:19; Rom. 6:12; 1 Cor. 6:20; 1 Pet. 1:18,19; Rom. 6:29.
CHAP. XVI.
Ezek. 18:20; Joh. 10:18; Phil. 2:8; Heb. 9:14; Heb. 2:11,12; Joh. 20:17; Lev. 25:25; Act. 20:28; Heb. 9:26; Eph. 5:25,27; Col. 1:14; Rom. 6:12; Gal. 3:13; Rom. 8:3,4; 1 Joh. 5:3; Matth. 11:30; Col. 1:20,21; Psalm. 103:9; Heb. 2:14; Col. 1:13; Col. 2:15; Joh. 12:31; Luk. 11:21; 1 Pet. 5:9; Gen. 3:19; Heb. 9:27; Psalm. 120:5; 2 Cor. 5:1; Phil. 1:23; Joh. 8:21; Joh. 10:28; Heb. 7:25; Heb. 9:12.
CHAP. XVII.
Matth. 22:3,8; Rom 8:30; Act. 13:48; Joh. 6:45; Act. 16:14; Joh. 15:19; Eph. 2:19; Isa. 65:1; Eph. 2:1,3,12; 1 Cor. 6:11; 1 Pet. 4:3; Isa. 53:6; 2 Tim. 1:9; Isa. 9:6; Joh. 3:16; Rom. 8:32; Joh. 17:6; Eph. 4:15; Joh. 15:1; Eph. 2:20,21; Eph. 2:22; 1 Joh. 4:13.
CHAP. XVIII.
Eph. 5:23,25; Act. 2:47; Rom. 8:30; Psalm. 95:7,8; Rev. 3:20; Matth. 8:21; Eph. 4:11,12; Act. 9:6,17; Act. 10:5,6; 2 Cor. 5:20; 2 Cor. 4:7; Jer. 1:9; Luk. 10:16; 2 Cor. 5:18; Eph. 6:15; Act. 14:3; Phil. 2:16; Act. 13:26; Matth. 13:44; 1 Cor. 4:15; 1 Cor. 3:2; Heb. 5:12; Deut. 5:32; Psalm. 119:105; Eph. 6:17; Eph. 4:11,12; Act. 2:41; 1 Cor. 4:15; Joh. 3:5; Luk. 1:79; Matth. 5:14; Act. 13:47; Eph. 2:8; Joh. 1:12; Joh. 3:16,18; Rom. 14:23; Heb. 11:6; Rom. 10:17; 1 Tim. 4:16; Joh. 8:47; Joh. 10:27; 1 Cor. 12:13; Amos. 8:11; 2 Tim. 3:16; 1 Cor. 14:3; Psalm. 27:4.
CHAP. XIX.
Gen. 49:5,6.
CHAP. XX.
1 Cor. 2:14; Jos. 6:26; 1 Kings. 16:34; 1 Kings. 13:1,2; 2 Kings. 22-23; Isa. 44:26,27,28.
CHAP. XXI.
Matth. 11:25; 1 Cor. 2:14; Eph. 2:8; 2 Thess. 1:11; 1 Cor. 2:15; 1 Joh. 2:27; 1 Cor. 2:10,12; Joh. 16:7,13.
CHAP. XXII.
N/A
CHAP. XXIII.
Rom. 7:8,15,23; 1 Cor. 3:5; Phil. 1:15,18; Rom. 1:16.
CHAP. XXIIII.
1 Cor. 11:19; 1 Tim. 4:1; 2 Pet. 2:1; 1 Cor. 11:19; 1 Joh. 4:1; Act. 17; Jam. 3:2; Jam. 2:10; 1 Kings. 8:46; Psalm. 143:2; Luk. 17 10; 1 Tim. 2:5; 1 Tim. 4:1,3,4; Heb. 13:4; 1 Cor. 7:2; Matth. 28:6; Act. 1:11; Acts 3:21; 1 Cor. 14:19; Matth. 26:28; 1 Cor. 11:28; Luke 11:13; Joh. 16:13; 1 Cor. 2:10,12; Rev. 3:18; 1 Joh. 2:27.
CHAP. XXV.
Rom. 10:14,17; 2 Tim. 1:9.
CHAP. XXVI.
Eccl. 4:17; Exod. 19:10; Jam. 1:19; 1 Pet. 2:1; Psalm. 119:18; Amos. 8:11.
CHAP. XXVII.
Rev. 2:21,22; Rev. 3:20.
CHAP. XXVIII.
N/A
CHAP. XXIX. Prov. 15:15; Rom. 2:4; Exod. 9:27; Exod. 10:16,17; 1 Kings. 13:6; 1 Kings. 21:27; Eph 4:11,12; John 6:44; Eph. 4:11,12.
CHAP. XXX. Ezek. 13:32; Ezek. 33:11; Matth. 9:13; Matth. 11:28; 1 Tim. 2:4.
CHAP. XXXI.
Psalm. 51:17; Isa. 66:2; Isa. 53:6; 2 Kings. 22:19; Act. 2:37; Zech. 12:10; Rev. 3:17,18; Job. 4:18; Job. 15:15; Isa. 64:6; Gal. 3:10; Rev. 21:6; Rev. 22:17; Matth. 11:27; Jer. 2:13.
CHAP. XXXII.
Isa. 28:21; 1 Chron. 14; 1 Cor. 11:32; Luke 7:41; Psalm. 36:6; Psalm. 104:21,27; Psalm. 147:9; Psalm. 145:9.
CHAP. XXXIII.
N/A
CHAP. XXXIIII.
2 Cor. 1:20; Rev. 1:7; 1 Cor. 11:25; 1 Joh. 17:9.
CHAP. XXXV.
1 Pet. 2:24; Matth. 11:25.
CHAP. XXXVI.
Matth. 16; Joh. 8:44; Isa. 1:5-16; Act. 2:38.
CHAP. XXXVII.
Ezek. 16:6; Eph. 2:1,3,12,13; Rom. 7:7; Psalm. 40:6; Joh. 6:44; Act. 16:14; 1 Joh. 2:20,27; 1 Joh. 2:15; Jam. 4:4; Phil. 3:29; Gal. 5:22; Joh. 15:4; Joh. 10:28.
CHAP. XXXVIII.
Isa. 28:15; Zech. 7:11.
CHAP. XXXIX.
Psalm. 51:10; Ezek. 11:19; Psalm. 119:88; Isa. 63:17; Phil. 1:6; Psalm. 77:2; Cant. 3:1; Cant. 5:6; Luk. 12:47; Rom. 7:9,10.
CHAP. XL.
Psalm. 53:4; Rom. 11:29; Rom. 8:26; Psalm. 32:3; Isa. 38:14; Luke 18:13,14; Psalm. 51:17; Rom. 8:26; Rom. 8:26; Psalm. 139:2; Exod. 14:15; Psalm. 38:9; Psalm. 10:17; Psalm. 145:19; Joh. 16:23; Rev. 5:8; Psalm. 50:15; Matth. 7:7; Joh. 16:23,24; 1 Thess. 5:17; Psalm. 53:4; Rom. 11:29; Joh. 13:1; Psalm. 77:2,3,4.
CHAP. XLI.
Act. 2:27; 2 Cor. 7:11; Jam. 4:8; Psalm. 66:18; Rom. 14:23; Gen. 27:41; Num. 14:1,2.
CHAP. XLII.
Joh. 8:44; 1 Tim. 2:4; Luke 1:53; Joh. 7:37; Psalm. 145:19; Psalm. 10:17; Psalm. 38:9; Phil. 1:6; Heb. 4:16; Psalm. 32:5; Luk. 15:18,19; Gal. 2:20; Heb. 11:1; Joh. 20 29; Matth. 15:27; Rom. 8:15,26; Gal. 5:22; 1 Cor. 2:12; 2 Cor. 1:22; Eph. 1:13; Matth. 12:25; Job. 13:15; Jam. 3:11; Matth. 7:16; Rom. 7:18; Joh. 1:12.
CHAP. XLIII.
N/A
CHAP. XLIIII.
Rom. 11:29; Phil. 1:6; Psalm. 77; Heb. 11:1; 1 Cor. 2:9; Job. 13:15; Matth. 15; Jam. 1:17; Joh. 13:1; Job. 13:15; Psalm. 51:10; Psalm. 22:1; Psalm. 77:7; Psalm. 88:14; Jer. 20:14,15; Luke 22:32.
CHAP. XLV.
Joh. 5:39; Psalm. 119:50; Job. 4:3,4; Rom. 14:1; Eph. 2:8; Joh. 6:65; Luk. 17:5; Mar. 9:24; Rom. 8:38,39; Matth. 11:28; Joh. 3:16; Matth. 9:13; Mar. 1:15; 1 Joh. 3:23; Gal. 2:20; Heb. 6:18; 1 Joh. 2:2; 1 Joh. 5:10.
CHAP. XLVI.
Rom. 1:17; Heb. 10:22; Joh. 1:12; Joh. 3:18; Joh. 4:39,41; Matth. 16:18; Matth. 20:18; Luk. 9:45; Mar. 9:32; Luk. 24:11; Joh. 13:38; Joh. 14:5; Acts. 1:6; Mar. 10:37; Matth. 8:26; Phil. 3:12; Matth. 12:20; Matth. 25:29; Mar. 9:24; Joh. 3:14.
CHAP. XLVII.
1 Cor. 13:12; Num. 20:10,11; Psalm. 22:1; Psalm. 77:8,9; Jer. 20; Jon. 4:9; Eph. 2:8; Rom. 11:29; Phil. 1:26; Rom. 8:30; Isa. 66:13; Isa. 49:15; Matth. 12:20; Psalm. 37:24; Matth. 13:12; Psalm. 145:14; 2 Cor. 12:9; Rom. 8:26; Heb. 4:15; Heb. 5:2; Luk. 4:18.
CHAP. XLVIII.
Rom. 8:30; Isa. 43:25; Ezek. 16:8; Rom. 4:5; Rom. 8:33; Psalm. 51:4; Rom. 3:24; Tit. 3:5,7; Rom. 4:5; 2 Cor. 5:19; 1 Cor. 1:30; Rom. 3:23,24; Rom. 3:24; Rom. 5:21; Eph. 2:5,6,7; Rom. 4:16; Rom. 4:6,7; Rom. 3:22; Psalm. 32:1; 2 Cor. 5:19; Rom. 4:6; Rom. 9:30; Phil. 3:8,9; 2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15; 1 Pet. 1:19; Joh. 8:46; Rom. 3:21,22; Rom. 4:5; Joh. 4:24; Matth. 25:34.
CHAP. XLIX.
Rom. 3:20,21,22; Phil. 3:9; Gal. 3:10,11; Rom. 4:5; Luk. 17:10; Rom. 3:19,20; Rom. 10:5,6; Gal. 3:11,12,21,22,24; Eph. 2:8,9; Titus. 3:5; Gal. 2:3; Rom. 3:20; Rom. 7:7,8,9; Gal. 3:10; Rom. 4:2; Rom. 8:1,33,34; Rom. 3:23,24,25; Eph. 1:7; Eph. 2:8; Tit. 3:5,7; Rom. 4:14; Gal. 2:21; Eph. 2:9; Rom. 4:2; Rom. 3:27; Eph. 2:9; Gal. 3:10; Heb. 7:25; Rom. 5:1; Rom. 10:4,6.
CHAP. L.
Phil. 2:9; Rom. 3:28; Gal. 2:16; Gal. 3:11; Rom. 9:30; Rom. 4:16; Joh. 3:14,15; Rom. 4:3,4; Psalm. 106:31; Rom. 5:13; Lev. 17:4; Num. 18:27; Mar. 15:28; 2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 4:4,5; Eph. 2:8; Rom. 4:2,3; Jam. 3:2; 1 Joh. 1:8; Isa. 64:6; Rom. 3:31; Jam. 2:10; Deut. 25:1; Prov. 17:15; Isa. 5:23; Luk. 16:17; Jer. 23:6; Isa. 45:24; 1 Cor. 1:30; Rom. 5:19; Rom. 8:3,4; 2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 1:18,19; 1 Pet. 2:21.
CHAP. LI.
Rom. 5:1; Rom. 8:30; Joh. 3:16; Joh. 5:24; Matth. 11:28; Mar. 1:15; 1 Joh. 3:23; 1 Joh. 5:10; Rom. 7; Phil. 3:13,14.
BOOK III.
CHAP. I.
Lev. 20:8; Joh. 1:13; Ephes 2:10; Ezek. 36:26; Ezek. 34:28; 1 Thess. 5:23; Psalm. 51:13; Gen. 1:28; Jer. 13:23; Eph. 2:1; Tit. 3:5; Eph. 2:4,5; Heb. 9:14; Eph. 5:26; 1 Cor. 2:11; Joh. 3:5,6; Act. 11:16; Tit. 3:5; 1 Pet. 1:3; Eph. 2:5; Eph. 2:1,3; Joh. 15:3; Joh. 17:17; Jam. 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:23; 1 Cor. 4:15; Phile. 10; Act. 22:16; Eph. 5:26; Heb. 4:2; Act. 8:37; Act. 15:9; Gal. 5:6; Rom. 6:6; Rom. 6:3; Col. 2:12,13; Rom. 6:4; Matth. 5:16; 1 Pet. 2:12; 1 Cor. 10:31; Tit. 3:5,7; Joh. 3:3; 1 Cor. 15:50; Rev. 21:27; Heb. 12:14; 2 Pet. 1:10.
CHAP. II.
Rom. 7:15,19,22; 2 Cor. 7:11; Psalm. 119:18; Col. 1:9; Psalm. 119:11; Rom. 7:18; 1 Cor. 3:16; Rom. 6:19; Rev. 22:11; Heb. 5:14; Rom. 8:29.
CHAP. III.
Psalm. 34:14; Psalm. 37:27; Isa. 1:16,17; Rom. 5:11,18; Eph. 4:22,23; Rom. 6:4,5; Col. 2:12; Col. 3:3,5; Rom. 6:4; Col. 3:5; Rom. 8:6,7,8; Psalm. 63:4; Phil. 3:10,11; Gal. 2:20; Rom. 8:11; Eph. 1:17; Rom. 7:18,22; Rom. 8:23; Eph. 5:26,27; 2 Cor. 5:1,2.
CHAP. IIII.
Eph. 1:4; Act. 17:28; 1 Cor. 6:20; Luk. 1:74,75; 2 Cor. 5:15; Rom. 6:6,8,18; 1 Thess. 4:17; Luk. 7 47; Col. 1:21,22; Eph. 2:14; 1 Pet. 1:18,19; Isa. 53:7; 1 Cor. 6:15; Psalm. 4:5; 1 Cor. 3:16; Eph. 2:21,22; Eph. 4:30; 1 Cor. 6:17; 1 Pet. 2:5.
CHAP. V.
Rom. 2:5; He 2:10,31; 2 Pet. 3:11; Jude. 14:15.
CHAP. VI.
1 Thess. 5:22.
CHAP. VII.
Jam. 3:2; 1 Joh. 1:8; Gal. 5:17; Rev. 22:11; 1 Joh. 2:1,2; Rom. 7:12,22; 2 Cor. 12:8,9; Lam. 3:22; 1 Pet. 5:5; Luk. 1:53; Rev. 2:26,27; Rev. 3:21; Phil. 1:22,23.
CHAP. VIII.
Phil. 1:6; Psalm. 145:19; 1 Cor. 10:13; Matth. 12:20; Luk. 11:13; Matth. 11:30; Eph. 6:10; Phil. 4:13; 2 Tim. 2:19; Eph. 1:4; Joh. 14:16,17; Ezek. 11:19; Ezek. 36:26; Jer. 31:33,34; Joel. 2:28,29.
CHAP. IX.
2 Cor. 7:9,10,11; 1 Joh. 2:1,2; Rom. 8:1; Isa. 5:18; Eccl. 8:11.
CHAP. X.
Matth. 11:28; 1 Joh. 2:1,2; Heb. 6:4,5,6; Eccl. 8:11; Rom. 2:4; Heb. 10:26; Matth. 12:31,32; Psalm. 19:13; Rom. 8:38,39; Matth. 12:31,32.
CHAP. XI.
1 Tim. 1:20; Matth. 12:24,31; 1 Tim. 1:13; Act. 3:17; Jam. 4:7.
CHAP. XII.
Matth. 24:3; 2 Cor. 1:21; 1 Pet. 1:4; Col. 3:3; Jer. 32:17; Psalm. 115:3; Matth. 19:26; Job. 42 2; Psalm. 145:5; Heb. 4:13; Rom. 9:11; 1 Tim. 2:19; Rom. 8:30; Tit. 1:1; Act. 13:48; Joh. 10:26; Joh. 6:39,40; Jer. 31:3; Joh. 13:1; Isa. 64:5; Rom. 11:29; Psalm. 51:9,10,11,12,15; Joh. 6:29; Phil. 1:6.
CHAP. XIII.
Isa. 63:1; 1 Pet. 1:5; Eph. 6:10,11; Phil. 4:13; Rom. 14:4; Joh. 10:28,29; 2 Tim. 1:12; Rev. 1:5; 2 Cor. 1:20; Luke 16:17; Isa. 59:21; Rom. 8:11; Rom. 8:11,14; Jer. 32:38,39,40; Jer. 31:31,32; Rom. 2:15; 2 Cor. 3:2; Hos. 2:19,20; Isa. 54:10; Psalm. 1:3; Ezek. 47:12; Psalm. 15:5; Psalm. 37:24; Psalm. 112:6; Psalm. 125:1; Joh. 4:14; Joh. 7:38,39; Joh. 6:35,37; Joh. 5:24; Joh. 10:28; Joh. 8:31; Joh. 15:7.
CHAP. XIIII.
Joh. 11:42; Luk. 22:32; Joh. 17:9,11,15,21; 1 Joh. 2:1,2; Rom. 8:33,34,35; Heb. 7:25; Eph. 5:30; Joh. 17:21,24; Col. 3:3; Joh. 5:24; 1 Joh. 3:14; Joh. 4:14; Joh. 7:39; Joh. 14:16; 1 Joh. 2:27; 1 Joh. 3:9; 1 Joh. 2:20,27; Rom. 8:14,17; 1 Joh. 5:18; Rom. 16:17; Eph. 1:14; 2 Cor. 1:22; Eph. 4:30; 1 Cor. 10:13; 2 Pet. 2:9; 2 Tim. 1:12; Matth. 7:24,25; Matth. 16:18; Luk. 8:15; 1 Joh. 2:19; Psalm. 51:10,11; Rom. 1:35; 2 Cor. 4:17; Joh. 16:33; 1 Joh. 5:4; Jam. 4:7; 1 Joh. 5:18; 1 Joh. 2:1,2; Rom. 6:12; 1 Joh. 3:9; 1 Cor. 10:13; Rom. 8:38,39.

 

[JTB.SDG]

For some people taking notes is what helps them listen better. I have zero problem with it. I might have a problem with people forbidding it.

 

[davejonescue]

Two options. You should be able to load a version of the Logos that works with Word. If not, start a thread in General with the title ignore and just post these there rather than post to whatever thread is available. What I do is I have a Wordpress site that I have a junk page for checking scripture references (Wordpress has the Logos plugin like PB does).

Will do.

 

[CovenantPatriot87]

I take notes because I do what I want.

 

[Ploutos]

I take notes because I do what I want.

I sometimes skip taking notes because I don't do that which I want and I do that which I don't want.

 

[Polanus1561]

I would like to take notes during the sermon because I often lose track of the preacher's train of thought but I realize that is not a good look since I am the preacher.

 

[Ploutos]

I can see it now.

"At a recent session meeting, Pastor John was admonished for his habit of stopping mid-sentence to yell 'Amen!', and also for his repeated habit of saying 'oh that's good, let me write that down'. The session suggested that this habit, if continued, could undermine the congregation's confidence in their preacher. Pastor John calmly replied that he didn't see anything wrong with being vocal in his support for, and enthusiasm over, the preaching at his church, and that his confidence in the preacher was higher than ever."

 

[Reformed Catholic]

I take notes because I do what I want.

No one is forbidding you from doing what you want. Rather, the question is what we should do when hearing a sermon, not what we can do. Tim Keller and Dr. Lloyd Jones, both great men, would not forbid you from taking notes but would discourage against it, for their given reasons. I think it best to learn from such men and be humbled, examining our "wants" in the light of Scripture. Most of the replies to this thread have included all manner of true and good things regarding note-taking; few have interacted with the points Lloyd Jones or Keller made regarding its dangers.

 

[Theoretical]

For some people taking notes is what helps them listen better. I have zero problem with it. I might have a problem with people forbidding it.

100% this.

Westminster Confession 20.2: God alone is Lord of the conscience, and hath left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men which are in anything contrary to his Word, or beside it, in matters of faith or worship. So that to believe such doctrines, or to obey such commands out of conscience, is to betray true liberty of conscience; and the requiring of an implicit faith, and an absolute and blind obedience, is to destroy liberty of conscience, and reason also.

Even "best practices" and "pious advice" can become very heavy burdens. Much relates to the heart, the way one learns and absorbs what is being preached, and even the season of life one is in.

I've sometimes taken a lot of notes to follow, and more recently I've tried to be more auditory since I was finding my notetaking to be idiosyncratic and not tied to the heart of the sermon. Being able to listen to a sermon a second or third time really helps, especially if I'm helping friends with their infant/toddlers so they all can be in the service and the parents have an extra hand to help so they're more able to focus on the sermon.

But even if I found it a dead negative and spiritually problematic for me, I'd never try to bind someone's conscience on notetaking or not notetaking. I'd be just as likely to suggest "have you considered taking notes" as "have you considered laying the pen aside and just listening." We all learn in different ways and to different degrees, and are in a both better and worse environment for thought than in previous generations.

 

[CovenantPatriot87]

No one is forbidding you from doing what you want. Rather, the question is what we should do when hearing a sermon, not what we can do. Tim Keller and Dr. Lloyd Jones, both great men, would not forbid you from taking notes but would discourage against it, for their given reasons. I think it best to learn from such men and be humbled, examining our "wants" in the light of Scripture. Most of the replies to this thread have included all manner of true and good things regarding note-taking; few have interacted with the points Lloyd Jones or Keller made regarding its dangers.

It's a joke. My old churchs pastor discouraged note taking, even though he printed outlines every week for years. He actually thought that by having our eyes focused on him, sitting in an attentive position, we were actually listening. Little did he know, I was zoned out most of the time doing that. Felt guilty for years until I realized everyone learns different, and its all of God. I was most engaged looking down taking notes and thumbing through my Bible. In his mind when it says "they searched the scriptures daily to see whether these things were so (Acts 17:11)" he understood it as that they were spoon fed from the "qualified, trained and ordained" ministers since he believes people in those days had no access to a bible and couldnt read, contrary to the text itself. If thats the case then Peter is the vicar of Christ in Matt 18 according to the illogic of the way he reads it. A pharisee and a papist couldnt be more proud of such an idea, and yet the honor is less than that of a hot air balloon.

 

[Kinghezy]

This line of thought is the one that I've been having.

I am intrigued by some of the distinctions being made in this thread between intellectual and spiritual engagement. .... The intellect and the emotions do not stand in opposition.

If taking notes helps someone keep attention and/or recall later, I'm not sure why this is equating to taking notes on a lecture. Someone could be listening to a sermon without taking notes and treating it like a lecture. It seems like that is a heart matter that isn't going to be discerned by note taking versus not taking notes.

Having just gone through gone through Matthew:3:51-13:58 with Ryle, I've quoted what he had to say. He makes a similar point point to Ploutos - that the intellect isn't opposed to the heart. I would even argue that he makes a stronger point -- that the intellect is often the means to reach heart.

Intellect, no doubt, is not everything in religion; but it does not therefore follow that it is nothing at all. The heart is unquestionably the main point: but we must never forget that the Holy Ghost generally reaches the heart through the mind.

Fuller section https://ccel.org/ccel/ryle/matthew/matthew.xiv.iv.html

The first thing which we ought to notice in these verses is the striking question with which our Lord winds up the seven wonderful parables of this chapter: he said, “Have you understood all these things?”


Personal application has been called the “soul” of preaching. A sermon without application is like a letter posted without a direction: it may be well written, rightly dated and duly signed; but it is useless, because it never reaches its destination. Our Lord’s inquiry is an admirable example of real heart-seaching application: “Have ye understood?”


The mere form of hearing a sermon can benefit no man, unless he comprehend what it means: he might just as well listen to the blowing of a trumpet, or the beating of a drum. He might just as well attend a Roman Catholic service in Latin. His intellect must be set in motion, and his heart impressed: ideas must be received into his mind; he must carry off the seeds the seeds of new thoughts.. Without this he hears is in vain.


It is of great important to see this point clearly; there is a vast amount of ignorance about it. There are thousands who go regularly to places of worship and think they have done their religious duty, but never carry away an idea, or receive an impression. Ask them, when they return home on a Sunday evening, what they have learned, and they cannot tell you a word. Examine them at the end of a year as to the religious knowledge they have attained, and you will find them as ignorant as the heathen.


Let us watch our souls in this matter. Let us take with us to church not only our bodies, but our minds, our reason, our hearts and our consciences. Let us often ask ourselves, “What have I got from this sermon? What have I learned? What truths have been impressed on my mind?” Intellect, no doubt, is not everything in religion; but it does not therefore follow that it is nothing at all. The heart is unquestionably the main point: but we must never forget that the Holy Ghost generally reaches the heart through the mind. Sleepy, idle, inattentive hearers are never likely to be converted.

 

[Ploutos]

No one is forbidding you from doing what you want. Rather, the question is what we should do when hearing a sermon, not what we can do. Tim Keller and Dr. Lloyd Jones, both great men, would not forbid you from taking notes but would discourage against it, for their given reasons. I think it best to learn from such men and be humbled, examining our "wants" in the light of Scripture. Most of the replies to this thread have included all manner of true and good things regarding note-taking; few have interacted with the points Lloyd Jones or Keller made regarding its dangers.

We have interacted, at least I have, by pointing out the absurdity of attributing intrinsic danger to note taking. If taking notes distracts you or interferes with your ability to properly engage with a sermon, that is a you problem, not a note-taking problem, and it is solved by you not taking notes, not by making a rule out of it.

Guns don't kill people.
Spoons didn't make me fat.
Pen and paper do not make one spiritually inattentive.

 

[Reformed Catholic]

by pointing out the absurdity of attributing intrinsic danger to note taking

I suppose Dr. Martin Lloyd Jones preached absurdity according to you. Quite an attack

 

[Solparvus]

I do think this is an area to avoid creating hard and fast rules, because there are none. There is liberty, and there is discretion involved.

My point in summary is, we must remember we are coming to worship, and so it requires a certain kind of engagement. Note-taking may or may not be consistent with that engagement at times. MLJ seems to think that, at some times, your eyes most certainly should be off the paper. Because we aren't coming for a lecture. We are coming to worship God.

Take notes so far as you may truly and fully engage in worship from the heart. But once it becomes a matter of record-keeping, it's time to re-engage the heart, and then ask if the note-taking (or the way you are doing it) is interfering, and adjust accordingly. if you worship God, you did what you were called to do, notes or none.

It's only a matter of keeping first things first, and good vs. best.

 

[Ploutos]

I suppose Dr. Martin Lloyd Jones preached absurdity according to you. Quite an attack

If it's absurd, his saying it doesn't make it less so.

 

[The Calvinistic Methodist]

Dr. Martyn Lloyd Jones said the following: “I have often discouraged the taking of notes while I am preaching. . . . The first and primary object of preaching is not only to give information. It is, as Edwards says, to produce an impression. It is the impression at the time that matters, even more than what you can remember subsequently. . . . While you are writing your notes, you may be missing something of the impact of the Spirit.”
(Martyn Lloyd-Jones, The Puritans: Their Origins and Successors)

Ray Ortlund affirms this and adds that “Hearing a sermon is not like hearing a lecture. It is your meeting with the living Christ. It is you seeing his glory, so that you can feel it and be changed by it. Let’s pay attention to him and what he means a sermon to be, lest we miss him.”

Tim Keller: “I don’t mind if you take notes at the beginning of a message, but if you’re still taking notes at the end, I feel like I haven’t brought it home.”

On the other hand, Joel Beeke, in his sermon “Puritan Theology of Worship” says that Puritans would often take notes while the sermon was being preached. Is this true? What has been the standard Reformed practice when sermons are being preached?

I often need my notes later in the day as I reflect on the sermon. Taking notes commits it to memory, and where my memory fails, I can refer to my writing?
I get it, we do not want people distracted. At the same time, I’d have a hard time finding any scriptural reason why we shouldn’t note take. Though if my minister took preference against it, I’d comply out of love not necessity.

 

[TheInquirer]

Every now and then a discussion pops up on this board and I say to myself, “I can’t believe this is actually a thing….”

 

[RamistThomist]

Every now and then a discussion pops up on this board and I say to myself, “I can’t believe this is actually a thing….”

Some Christian sub-groups debate geocentrism and flat earth, so there's that.

 

[Reformed Catholic]

Every now and then a discussion pops up on this board and I say to myself, “I can’t believe this is actually a thing….”

Are we to completely ignore and dismiss the opinions of men like Martin Lloyd Jones and Tim Keller because you think their views on this matter to be so outlandish to not even warrant discussion?

 

[Ploutos]

Are we to completely ignore and dismiss the opinions of men like Martin Lloyd Jones and Tim Keller because you think their views on this matter to be so outlandish to not even warrant discussion?

Who said anything about ignoring and dismissing? If I was doing either, I wouldn't be posting. I've engaged with their views, as have others.

If a preacher preaches in such a way that note taking is not helpful, I probably would not take notes. If a preacher asked his congregants not to take notes, I would make an effort to respect that. To make a blanket rule, though - I have already stated my opinion. You are free to engage with my points or to continue throwing up straw men.

EDIT - Apology below for being needlessly punchy and not reading well.

 

[RamistThomist]

With all due respect to Revs MLJ and Keller, I do dismiss their opinions. I think we have provided reasons that they are not binding.

 

[Reformed Catholic]

Who said anything about ignoring and dismissing? If I was doing either, I wouldn't be posting. I've engaged with their views, as have others.

I wasn't replying to you.

With all due respect to Revs MLJ and Keller, I do dismiss their opinions. I think we have provided reasons that they are not binding.

It is one thing to disagree with them. Completely fair, we all disagree with great saints all the time. But it is quite another thing to be baffled that a discussion is even taking place. One would have to be so confident that their view is right, that someone even mentioning the other view is occasion for disbelief. To that I say, respectfully: wrong attitude.

 

[Ploutos]

I wasn't replying to you.

You're right. Somehow, I missed that; please accept an apology.

 

[Theoretical]

I wasn't replying to you.


It is one thing to disagree with them. Completely fair, we all disagree with great saints all the time. But it is quite another thing to be baffled that a discussion is even taking place. One would have to be so confident that their view is right, that someone even mentioning the other view is occasion for disbelief. To that I say, respectfully: wrong attitude.

Two issues here. One of the dangers of listening to a famous and good preacher (or one from the past) is the fact that their primary audience will be (if it's not, that's a problem) their local congregation, meaning that what may well be wise advice in his local setting is unwise to apply more broadly than his particular congregation. In MLJ or Keller's context, one could easily imagine some misguided people basically transcribing word for word the famous preacher as they hang on his words because it's MLJ or Keller and not because it's the preached Word. In that context, making a statement like this is wise for that congregation to get people to hear the Word proclaimed rather than the specific words chosen by the falliable preacher.

The second issue is that the reason it's baffling is because of the Christian liberty imposition that such pronouncements rightly rile up. Hard and fast rules or heavy-handed persuasion, especially from the pulpit, on things where Scripture has not spoken, that are not derived by good and necessary consequence, and are beyond the local and original context, absolutely merit the strongest of pushback.

 

[retroGRAD3]

No one is forbidding you from doing what you want. Rather, the question is what we should do when hearing a sermon, not what we can do. Tim Keller and Dr. Lloyd Jones, both great men, would not forbid you from taking notes but would discourage against it, for their given reasons. I think it best to learn from such men and be humbled, examining our "wants" in the light of Scripture. Most of the replies to this thread have included all manner of true and good things regarding note-taking; few have interacted with the points Lloyd Jones or Keller made regarding its dangers.

I would not put Jones and Keller in the same group. My opinion is Keller was not that great. My guess is Jones would have rebuked Keller harshly for the compromises and liberalism he brought into the PCA.

 

[RamistThomist]

One would have to be so confident that their view is right, that someone even mentioning the other view is occasion for disbelief.

Did anyone do this? It sounds like your saying, and maybe I am misunderstanding you, that MLJ/Keller are in disbelief because they say we shouldn't take notes?

 

[Ploutos]

Did anyone do this? It sounds like your saying, and maybe I am misunderstanding you, that MLJ/Keller are in disbelief because they say we shouldn't take notes?

I think he was referring to the post by @TheInquirer.