Taking the Bread and Wine

[Reformingstudent]

Hi all,

Here's a question for all you Reformed/Reforming scholars in this forum.
;D

In 1Corinthians 11:27, Paul states that those who take the Lord's supper in an unworthy manner are guilty of the body and blood of Christ.

My question then is this, are those who are in Arminian Churches who partake of the bread and Wine, guilty of this sin, seeing as they do not fully understand or comprehend the atonement of Christ?

Just wondering what that meant and if those who are in such churches are guilty of this.

Thanks.

KLF

 

[Scott Bushey]

The question should be, how, in taking the Lords supper, can one partake unworthily?

To me, this means that I should have things in in my life in order regarding unrepentant sins. I should not come to the table with sin (like egg) all over my face, mocking God. If I have offended someone, I should ask for forgiveness. If someone has offended me, I should be readily available to forgive them.

As far as knowledge goes, some people are slower than others..........But if one does not understand the table, and yet understands the cross, should they be excluded? I say no.

In fact, are we ever worthy? No! It is Christs worthiness, not ours!

 

[pastorway]

A good definition I heard for partaking unworthily would be to partake ritualistically or with indifference, coming with an unrepentant heart and refusing to deal with sin before partaking, or having anything unresolved between you and another believer which disqualifies you from worship in the first place (Matt 5:23-24).

Holding on to sin knowingly while partaking of the meal ordained to remember the very price paid for our sin is to mock God and ridicule the sacrifice of Christ on our behalf.

Phillip

 

[Puritan Sailor]

[quote:591656c0b0][i:591656c0b0]Originally posted by Scott Bushey[/i:591656c0b0]
The question should be, how, in taking the Lords supper, can one partake unworthily?

To me, this means that I should have things in in my life in order regarding unrepentant sins. I should not come to the table with sin (like egg) all over my face, mocking God. If I have offended someone, I should ask for forgiveness. If someone has offended me, I should be readily available to forgive them.

As far as knowledge goes, some people are slower than others..........But if one does not understand the table, and yet understands the cross, should they be excluded? I say no.

In fact, are we ever worthy? No! It is Christs worthiness, not ours! [/quote:591656c0b0]
Well, that brings up a question though. Is the Lord's Supper effective if you don't understand it? Can you benefit from the Lord's Supper if you don't understand what it's about? If so, then what's that benefit? Obviously faith is required to understand and enjoy the benefits confered through the sacrament, but how does understanding fit in with it? It would seem to me that you can't divorce faith and understanding. You must have both to benefit fully from the sacrament.

 

[Me Died Blue]

[quote:a1b29f925b][i:a1b29f925b]Originally posted by puritansailor[/i:a1b29f925b]
[quote:a1b29f925b][i:a1b29f925b]Originally posted by Scott Bushey[/i:a1b29f925b]
The question should be, how, in taking the Lords supper, can one partake unworthily?

To me, this means that I should have things in in my life in order regarding unrepentant sins. I should not come to the table with sin (like egg) all over my face, mocking God. If I have offended someone, I should ask for forgiveness. If someone has offended me, I should be readily available to forgive them.

As far as knowledge goes, some people are slower than others..........But if one does not understand the table, and yet understands the cross, should they be excluded? I say no.

In fact, are we ever worthy? No! It is Christs worthiness, not ours! [/quote:a1b29f925b]
Well, that brings up a question though. Is the Lord's Supper effective if you don't understand it? Can you benefit from the Lord's Supper if you don't understand what it's about? If so, then what's that benefit? Obviously faith is required to understand and enjoy the benefits confered through the sacrament, but how does understanding fit in with it? It would seem to me that you can't divorce faith and understanding. You must have both to benefit fully from the sacrament. [/quote:a1b29f925b]

Agreed. The sacraments are spiritual means of grace when combined with understanding. Many peopel often struggle with this concept, saying that if the sacraments need to be combined with understanding in order to be effective, then they themselves must not have any [i:a1b29f925b]real[/i:a1b29f925b] power to impart grace. Michael Horton deals with this well in his excellent book [i:a1b29f925b]In the Face of God[/i:a1b29f925b]: He comments that it is interesting that we do not get confused like this about the Word, but only the sacraments. They are both God's means of grace, and we clearly understand how the Word's power to [i:a1b29f925b]truly[/i:a1b29f925b] impart grace is not diminished by its need to be combined with understanding. The sacraments are the exact same scenario--like the Word, they are a powerful means that God uses to impart spiritual grace when received properly and with understanding.

Chris

[Edited on 3-14-2004 by Me Died Blue]

 

[JohnV]

How often should we have Communion?

 

[Me Died Blue]

[quote:881d3a52fe][i:881d3a52fe]Originally posted by JohnV[/i:881d3a52fe]
How often should we have Communion? [/quote:881d3a52fe]

This is just a "speak my mind as soon as it enters my brain" response, and I don't have any Scriptures at hand presently to back this up, but my initial inclination would be to say whenever the Word is preached. After all, the Word and the sacraments as administered by the Church are God's primary ordained means of grace in this life, so why should they not always be used together? We always accompany the sacraments with the preached Word, so vice-versa makes sense to me as well. Actually, I think Calvin said this as well. But I could be wrong--again, this is just my initial inclined response, and I'm not presently sure where I read that Calvin said that.

In Christ,

Chris

 

[JohnV]

We are not admonished to not hear the Word in an unworthy manner. There is a difference.

Doesn't Lord's Supper relate to Passover like baptism does to circumcision? The latter is a replacement of the sign of the Covenant, the former is a replacement of the sign of the atonement of justification. It is a memorial, and is a means of grace through the Word, not in itself. If this is right, then an every worship service observance is not exactly in line with the symbolism. But once a year seems to be too infrequent.

Jesus says "as often as you do this", but doesn't say how often that should be. What are the guidelines for when we do it too often, and when we do it not often enough?

 

[pastorway]

The early church in Acts had the Supper every time they met together, sometimes even daily!

We observe it every week after the preaching of the Word.

Phillip

 

[JohnV]

Phillip:
Isn't it true that the term "breaking bread" also meant that they had meals together? Are these sometimes confused, or are we to understand that Communion was part of their meals together?

 

[Scott Bushey]

I ditto John. My opinion, we should have it every Lords day in the evening.

 

[Guest]

We have it every week following the Sermon.

Then we usually gather in groups or as a whole church for lunch . . .

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Weekly would be nice, but I would love to have it even more often, now that I have come to understand it's significance.

 

[pastorway]

Careful study of the Book of Acts has lead me to believe that they used the term "breaking of bread" to signify a meal eaten with other believers during which they observed the Supper. In other words, every time believers met for a meal together part of that meal was set aside as a remembrance, just as Jesus did with the elements taken during the observance of the Passover meal with His disciples.

So each meal shared between believers day to day offered an opportunity to partake of the Supper!

We seem to have taken an every day celebration for the saints and made it a much more formal and restrictive ritual than it appears in the Bible.

Phillip

[Edited on 3-15-04 by pastorway]

 

[Puritan Sailor]

[quote:26635479da][i:26635479da]Originally posted by pastorway[/i:26635479da]
We seem to have taken an every day celebration for the saints and made it a much more formal and restrictive ritual than it appears in the Bible.
[/quote:26635479da]
I think this is because many reformed churches today fail to instruct the people what this is really about. If they did understand it, they perhaps would love to partake of it as much as the apostles did.

 

[luvroftheWord]

Does anyone's church serve communion at the front of the church, which each row going one by one to the front to take the elements? My church does this as part of our high church liturgy we employ. I really enjoy it, though it makes the communion service verrrrry long. As a result, we don't take communion every week.

 

[Puritan Sailor]

[quote:4ac686be58][i:4ac686be58]Originally posted by luvroftheWord[/i:4ac686be58]
Does anyone's church serve communion at the front of the church, which each row going one by one to the front to take the elements? My church does this as part of our high church liturgy we employ. I really enjoy it, though it makes the communion service verrrrry long. As a result, we don't take communion every week. [/quote:4ac686be58]
We do this at the Anglican chapel service when I must work on Sunday, but at my church we pass the plates around the congregation. At my previous church we had a group of chairs by the table with the elements where all the communicants would sit when it was time for the sacrament, then the elements would be distributed.

 

[Cacklewack]

[quote:cb0d7d065d][i:cb0d7d065d]Originally posted by luvroftheWord[/i:cb0d7d065d]
Does anyone's church serve communion at the front of the church, which each row going one by one to the front to take the elements? My church does this as part of our high church liturgy we employ. I really enjoy it, though it makes the communion service verrrrry long. As a result, we don't take communion every week. [/quote:cb0d7d065d]

Yes, we do celebrate it that way, by "intinction." It does take a long time, but now we do two lines and it goes twice as fast. It mainly takes so long because our pastor prays over all of the children who do not yet take communion.

In Him,
Matt