Triquetra - A 2nd Commandment Violation?

[APuritansMind]

Do you consider a triquetra, displayed decoratively as Christian religious symbol intending to represent the Trinity in a worship area, a 2nd commandment violation?

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated...

 

[Whitefield]

I don't think a symbol equates to a "graven image", unless the intention is that the symbol is itself to be worshiped. If we think about it words are symbols also. I don't think many would equate the name "Jesus" to be a graven image. Although there are some pious Jews who refuse to speak the name of God and in English will even render "God" as "God", I don't think there are many (if any) who render the word-symbol "Jesus" as "J_sus". Thus, I think that symbols, which are not to be worshiped, which only serve to point to a reality beyond themselves, and which do not attempt to display what most would think of as an image are not in violation of the second commandment.

 

[nicnap]

I don't think the symbol is any different than if they had written out Trinity on the wall. It is a way to communicate what we are saying without writing it out completely...it's theological shorthand, if you will. The difference between it and images is a thin line, I admit, but I do not see them as being the same.

---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------

Oh...just saw it was displayed on the wall, decoratively...hmm...I don't know what I think about that. That is crossing that thin line, I believe. (Although, if they use the red Trinity Hymnal, there is some sort of symbol that I think is supposed to represent the Trinity.)

 

[APuritansMind]

There's one in the front of my NKJV bible. Also, for those that are familiar with Led Zeppelin, John Paul Jones (bassist/keyboards) used a version of it as his symbol on the fourth album.

 

[Grillsy]

There's one in the front of my NKJV bible. Also, for those that are familiar with Led Zeppelin, John Paul Jones (bassist/keyboards) used a version of it as his symbol on the fourth album.

Good point. The symbol is also used VERY often in occult practice as well. Its use stretching all the way back in the era B.C.
I am not trying to say the Trinity Hymnal is occult

 

[Jack K]

It's a symbol attempting to make us recall who God is, not an image taking the place of God or usurping his method of self-revelation. So it doesn't directly violate the commandment.

One still must ask, though, if it's a good and helpful symbol. The Trinity is a concept not easily captured in any symbol or illustration. So although symbols like this (or a simple triangle, like I saw used in my CRC upbringing) may help us recall the Trinity, we must guard against starting to think they properly illustrate the Trinity. No symbol can do that.

 

[jjraby]

Its was a pagan symbol that the Roman Christians replaced with the Idea of the Trinity.

---------- Post added at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------

It was used to represent the pagan idea of Mother Nature (grandmother, mother, daughter)

In the same idea, much of the Church calendar was used to replace pagan holidays with Christian ones. so what do we make of those?

 

[Zenas]

It oddly resembles the Triforce.

Can I be Link?

 

[MarieP]

Oh...just saw it was displayed on the wall, decoratively...hmm...I don't know what I think about that. That is crossing that thin line, I believe. (Although, if they use the red Trinity Hymnal, there is some sort of symbol that I think is supposed to represent the Trinity.)

The blue one has an "Alpha and Omega"...does that make us Sabellians???

 

[Philip]

Most Christian symbols have a history that predates Christianity---even the cross.

 

[dudley]

Its was a pagan symbol that the Roman Christians replaced with the Idea of the Trinity.

---------- Post added at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------

It was used to represent the pagan idea of Mother Nature (grandmother, mother, daughter)

In the same idea, much of the Church calendar was used to replace pagan holidays with Christian ones. so what do we make of those?

Amen and ditto to my brother JRraby!
I become alarmed when some Protestants argue that some pagan Roman images are not idolatrous. Having been raised as a Roman catholic and by Gods grace escaping from that false cult called Roman Catholicism I recognize the dangers and the blasphemy of idolatry. As you well know Roman Catholicism is laden with all sorts of idolatrous images adapted from the pagan Roman empire.

All worldly images I believe ,as a Reformed Protestant, distort the word of the Gospel and are an abomination.

I believe as a Presbyterian Protestant that images of Christ are in violation of the 2nd commandment. As Protestants and Presbyterians we have only the symbol of the empty cross which represents Christ’s redemptive act on Calvary and the Easter message that He is now risen from that earthy crucifixion and has become glorified in a risen body which incorporates his two natures human and divine. Any earthly recreation of what Jesus might have looked like can not be accurate by the Chalcedon Council decree in 451 because in such an image it is not possible to portray the two distinct natures of God and Man in one Person. To me the Roman catholic crucifix and the eastern orthodox images of Christ on the cross misinterpret the true message of the Gospel, that He is risen and lives no more to die. The simple Protestant cross does exemplify the message and does not violate the second commandment.

I would be leary also of this sign or any sign to explain the Trinity. Just as I now reject the Roman catholic teaching of transubstantiation and say now as a protestant and a Presbyterian that how Christ becomes present in the Lords Supper is a mystery of the infinite and can not be explained by finite men. The same would be for us to try to explain the mystery of the trinity which is a mystery of an infinite God that in our finite and human condition we will never be able to explain ; as protestants it is through the authority of Scripture alone and by Gods grace alone and by Faith alone in Christ alone for the greater Glory of God that we will be saved. To me the simple Protestant cross is the only symbol we need as Christians ; that He died once on Calvary to save all who place faith in Him alone. He is risen, Christ has died, Christ is Risen , Christ will come again!

 

[nicnap]

Oh...just saw it was displayed on the wall, decoratively...hmm...I don't know what I think about that. That is crossing that thin line, I believe. (Although, if they use the red Trinity Hymnal, there is some sort of symbol that I think is supposed to represent the Trinity.)

The blue one has an "Alpha and Omega"...does that make us Sabellians???

Ah, a nice over reaction to nothing. Read the first part of my response, not just the second.

 

[CalvinandHodges]

Hi:

The Triqueta does not represent perfectly the concept of the Trinity. No two dimensional, or three dimensional, image can. Therefore, the prohibition of the 2nd Commandment stands in relation to this image. The Trinity is perfection indeed, and no image stained with sin can depict God in His perfection.

Blessings,

Rob

 

[dudley]

Just get out the Bible and read .....what it says about images

Thank you Rob, I agree with you completely that the Trinity is perfection indeed, and no image stained with sin can depict God in His perfection; just as any earthly or human recreation of what Jesus might have looked like can not be accurate by the Chalcedon Council decree in 451 because in such an image it is not possible to portray the two distinct natures of God and Man in one Person. I continue to be distrustful and troubled when some Protestants argue that some pagan Roman images are not idolatrous.

My cynicism of the use of any image goes beyond my former Roman catholic upbringing. When I became a Protestant and a Presbyterian I renounced and rejected the teachings of Roman Catholicism which are contrary to scripture. I renounced the illogical use of papist sanctioned images that can lead unknowingly in the heart of the person to what can become idolatry.

They shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
Isaiah 45:16

Roman Catholics love images. Please remember I am an ex Roman Catholic turned Reformed Presbyterian Protestant in recent years. I have seen Roman Catholics bow down in front of statues and pray. They love to adore the host which is a piece of bread. They light candles and pray to the dead like it does some good. They also adore relics like a dead monk's head or a dead saint's finger. We also know that they gaze upon other "sacred" objects and images like pictures of a madonna and naked baby Jesus ;salvation was accomplished by THE MAN Christ Jesus. Finally we know that they think that there is some benefit of having "a Jesus" hanging on the cross in their homes so they can visualize the object of their worship. Perhaps they think the crucifix is a good luck charm. They will vehemently tell you that they don't worship the images--we've seen a picture of the pope bowing down to Mary, of course when confronted by our accusations as Protestants, they will say they venerate, they do not adore the image of Mary or the saints.

As Protestants we know the Bible says don't even make images.

Well, what does the Bible say about worshipping images? It says much. but I am looking specifically at the Ten Commandments found in Exodus chapter 20. We who are Protestants know that the Ten Commandments prohibit even making images. This poses a problem for the Roman Catholic religion. How does it get around this? The Roman Catholic religion changes The Ten Commandments! How ? They delete the second commandment and divide the last commandment into two.

How can they delete a commandment and still have ten? Some man might ask me, "If the Roman Catholic religion deletes a commandment how do they still come up with ten commandments?

Let's compare the Roman Catholic ten commandments to the real ten commandments from the King James Bible, that pillar of doctrinal truth; God loves the truth, you know. The following list on the Roman Catholic side is taken from a textbook used in a Catholic school. It is titled, "Growing in Christian Morality" by Julia Ahlers, Barbara Allaire, and Carl Koch, page 40. It has both nihil obstat and imprimatur which are official declarations that a book or pamphlet is free of Roman Catholic doctrinal error. ...Following the Roman Catholic version of the Ten Commandmnts are the Ten Commandments from the KJV, from Exodus, chapter 20, in the traditional way they are enumerated by Roman Catholics. For the King James Version I "enumerated" them the traditional way they are enumerated by Roman Catholics so that you can easily see the deceit.

I'll let you take a look first (see if you can figure out what they deleted) and then I'll explain...

The Roman Catholic Deception*
First Commandment
I, the LORD, am your God...You shall not have other gods besides me.
Second Commandment
You shall not take the name of the LORD, your God, in vain.
Third Commandment
Remember to keep holy the sabbath day.
Fourth Commandment
Honor your father and your mother.
Fifth Commandment
You shall not kill.
Sixth Commandment
You shall not commit adultery.
Seventh Commandment
You shall not steal.
Eighth Commandment
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Ninth Commandment
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
Tenth Commandment
You shall not covet your neighbor's house.

The King James Bible
First Commandment
I, the LORD, am your God...You shall not have other gods besides me.
Second Commandment
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.
Third Commandment
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.
Fourth Commandment
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Fifth Commandment
Honor thy father and thy mother.
Sixth Commandment
Thou shalt not kill.
Seventh Commandment
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Eighth Commandment
Thou shalt not steal.
Ninth Commandment
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Tenth Commandment
Thou shalt not covet.

Do you see it now?

The Roman Catholic religion deletes the second commandment and makes the 10th commandment into two. If you follow them all the way down from the second commandment you'll see the Roman Catholic religion is always one ahead of the King James. Finally at the tenth commandment they break it into two and make it the 9th and 10th commandments. What a deception! What deceit! It is one of the many reasons I renounced Roman Catholicism and her pope and papist false teachings when I became a Protestant. Being a Protestant to me means that I believe in the 5 solas of the Reformation and that final authority rests in Scripture alone. I renounce the Roman Catholic faith because she has the audacity to actually change scripture to support her false teachings. I proclaim my self now as a Protestant and a Presbyterian because Protestants stand for the truth of the scripture and the Gospel and protest the heresies and false teachings of Roman Catholicism and any teaching which is contrary to scripture alone. I tell no lies here--just get out the Bible and compare. They even corrupt their own Bible by deleting the 2nd commandment!

As a Reformed Protestant I believe and hold as a base on my argument above that the prohibition of the 2nd Commandment does stand against the image of the triquetra or any man made image that tries to exemplify the God head and the nature of God because man can not bow down to any such graven image.

EXODUS 20:4-6

KING JAMES VERSION
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

 

[Philip]

As a Reformed Protestant I believe and hold as a base on my argument above that the prohibition of the 2nd Commandment does stand against the image of the triquetra or any man made image that tries to exemplify the God head and the nature of God because man can not bow down to any such graven image.

This is question: is the triquetra an attempt to depict the trinity or an attempt to symbolize it?

Here is what I mean: according to you, the crucifix is idolatrous because it attempts to depict the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. It is an image of the redeemer and therefore a violation of the second commandment (correct me if I've misinterpreted your argument here). However, you accept a simple cross as acceptable since it only symbolizes redemption and its emptiness signifies the empty tomb.

Now here's the crux (pun intended): the triquetra is not an attempt to depict the Godhead. It's not an image of God, but a geometric shape similar to (in a doctrine class) drawing a triangle and writing in how each of the the members of the trinity is God and each is not the others. The second commandment argument doesn't hold water because no one thinks that the trinity looks like a triquetra any more than anyone thinks that Jesus looks like a simple cross. It's a kind of visual shorthand conveying a theological point, like the cross, the fish, or the labarum.

 

[MarieP]

Oh...just saw it was displayed on the wall, decoratively...hmm...I don't know what I think about that. That is crossing that thin line, I believe. (Although, if they use the red Trinity Hymnal, there is some sort of symbol that I think is supposed to represent the Trinity.)

The blue one has an "Alpha and Omega"...does that make us Sabellians???

Ah, a nice over reaction to nothing. Read the first part of my response, not just the second.

That was said with tongue firmly in cheek, brother!

 

[Michael]

Regarding the OP...

No

 

[nicnap]

Oh...just saw it was displayed on the wall, decoratively...hmm...I don't know what I think about that. That is crossing that thin line, I believe. (Although, if they use the red Trinity Hymnal, there is some sort of symbol that I think is supposed to represent the Trinity.)

The blue one has an "Alpha and Omega"...does that make us Sabellians???

Ah, a nice over reaction to nothing. Read the first part of my response, not just the second.

That was said with tongue firmly in cheek, brother!

My apologies.

 

[MarieP]

Oh...just saw it was displayed on the wall, decoratively...hmm...I don't know what I think about that. That is crossing that thin line, I believe. (Although, if they use the red Trinity Hymnal, there is some sort of symbol that I think is supposed to represent the Trinity.)

The blue one has an "Alpha and Omega"...does that make us Sabellians???

Ah, a nice over reaction to nothing. Read the first part of my response, not just the second.

That was said with tongue firmly in cheek, brother!

My apologies.

No worries! It's hard to catch intentions/tones of voice online!