War on Drugs?

[py3ak]

One great flaw — a fatal one? — in the view of opponents to the idea of sorcery involving a particular class of drugs is that no one can positively identity what the sin of sorcery is in Revelation 21:8 and Rev 22:15; likewise in Rev 9:21. A sin warranting eternal punishment if unrepented of — in the class of cowardice, faithlessness, murderers, sexually immoral, idolators, and liars — that cannot be clearly known? And the reason it cannot be is because there are some who simply won't believe the reality the word sorcery depicts. My gracious brother Ruben says "the exegetical case that links 'sorcery' in Scripture to a particular class of drugs is not proven" to him, that is, it does satisfy his disbelief. He also beings up "the idea of substances with direct spiritual impacts" — a worthy consideration.

I'm not entirely sure that "satisfying my disbelief" is an accurate representation of my position. I appreciate the Turretin quote -- if I'm remembering the history correctly, I brought that one up to you some years ago.

I have never denied the reality of sorcery. I have read 1 Samuel and Acts, after all. Any attempt to pry into or control what has not been placed in our purview by supernatural or mystical means, whether effective or not, is ruled out. We can believe that judicial astrology is wrong (Jeremiah 10:1-2) without believing that judicial astrologers perform better than average at predicting the future. And I believe that all substance abuse, as indeed many other sins, put us in danger of and leave us vulnerable to more influence from unclean spirits. Judas was susceptible to diabolical influence because of greed and dishonesty, no drug use required. The expelled demon takes seven others and enters into the house that has been swept. What I remain unconvinced of is the idea that certain drugs are especially sorcerous in nature. I understand that the users of them will often make the same claim, and so in a sense I'm open to the idea; but I have four main reservations.

The first is that I haven't seen it Biblically demonstrated, so even if it's true it doesn't mean that it's taught by Scripture.
The second is that I wonder if the experience of the users is the most reliable guide. Almost by definition, they are opening themselves to experiences which might be expected to be deceptive.
The third is what the implications are for anti-demonic magical measures, if I may speak so. And here again, I'm not unwilling to learn that some things may be effective and still prohibited; it's an intriguing corollary that it might be helpful to think through.
And the fourth is that if it tends to reduce sorcery to the use of a certain class of drugs only, this might leave out other things that are equally condemnable under that heading, as well as to rule out certain classes of substances from having any beneficial use.

Of course I recognize that if Mr. Rafalsky has not convinced me in the past 10 or 15 years, no more have I convinced him. I'm happy to leave things there.

 

[Romans830]

I'm not entirely sure that "satisfying my disbelief" is an accurate representation of my position. I appreciate the Turretin quote -- if I'm remembering the history correctly, I brought that one up to you some years ago.

I have never denied the reality of sorcery. I have read 1 Samuel and Acts, after all. Any attempt to pry into or control what has not been placed in our purview by supernatural or mystical means, whether effective or not, is ruled out. We can believe that judicial astrology is wrong (Jeremiah 10:1-2) without believing that judicial astrologers perform better than average at predicting the future. And I believe that all substance abuse, as indeed many other sins, put us in danger of and leave us vulnerable to more influence from unclean spirits. Judas was susceptible to diabolical influence because of greed and dishonesty, no drug use required. The expelled demon takes seven others and enters into the house that has been swept. What I remain unconvinced of is the idea that certain drugs are especially sorcerous in nature. I understand that the users of them will often make the same claim, and so in a sense I'm open to the idea; but I have four main reservations.

The first is that I haven't seen it Biblically demonstrated, so even if it's true it doesn't mean that it's taught by Scripture.
The second is that I wonder if the experience of the users is the most reliable guide. Almost by definition, they are opening themselves to experiences which might be expected to be deceptive.
The third is what the implications are for anti-demonic magical measures, if I may speak so. And here again, I'm not unwilling to learn that some things may be effective and still prohibited; it's an intriguing corollary that it might be helpful to think through.
And the fourth is that if it tends to reduce sorcery to the use of a certain class of drugs only, this might leave out other things that are equally condemnable under that heading, as well as to rule out certain classes of substances from having any beneficial use.

Of course I recognize that if Mr. Rafalsky has not convinced me in the past 10 or 15 years, no more have I convinced him. I'm happy to leave things there.

I guess it also depends on which chemical receptors a drug binds to....ha

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

Hello Ruben, your memory is right — I used Turretin some years ago while discussing with you the issue of whether or not there is an intrinsic evil in cannabis, confirming there is not.

Quite understandably, it appears there is no understanding of the nature of sorcery — Biblical pharmakeia in the Greek NT — in those who have not used it. There is an actual disbelief that such a thing can even be. I am sympathetic to such a view, as in my early 20s, never having partaken of it, I myself could also have doubted it. I was able to make a distinction between fairy tales and what I knew then as "reality". Fast-forward almost 60 years, with a wider range of experience, the reason I now persist in prosecuting this case, against opposition, is because of the danger of demonic presence entering the precincts of God's spiritual house, in the guise of a regenerated brother or sister.

The reason it was made a capital crime under Moses (Exod 22:18; Deut 18:9,10,11,12) was to protect the community of the godly from the spiritual influences prevalent among the nations and their various occultic practices, in Exodus 22:18 witchcraft in particular. It is true we don’t know — so the scholars tell us — exactly what witchcraft / sorcery entailed back then, although the LXX reading is pharmakos, which is related to drug use.

In the NT we are given to be privy to exactly what “witchcraft” or “sorcery” entails, as by God’s mercy and wisdom a good number of us have come out of such depths — seeing clearly the nature and horror of it — while many are yet trapped by strong delusion within it, and both classes do testify what is involved. As I have stated in the essay, “The Fate of Babylon, A study in determining the identity and demise of Babylon in John’s Apocalypse”,

Which brings me to the matter of witnesses, and legal testimony. In this matter of the pharmakeia drugs there are three witnesses:

1) The testimony of Scripture: these drugs exist, are used in sorcerous activities, and are condemned by God on pain of death [in the OT, physical, in the NT spiritual].
2) The testimony of exegetes, linguists, and commentators: who define what sorcery and witchcraft are by indicating the use of drugs to enter demonic realms, and the practicing of their crafts there by said users.
3) The testimony of those who have experienced these peculiar drugs, and they are of two classes: a) godly men and women who have been delivered from the use and effects of them; and b) ungodly men and women who continue in use of them and clearly tell of their properties, their affect within their beings, and their efficacy in entering the spirit world.

The quality of this legal testimony (Deut 19:15; Matt 18:16; 2 Cor 13:1; etc) ought to be sufficient for skeptics to at least take notice, and ponder, weighing it.​

Evidently, however, for some it is not sufficient. To those, I would suggest that, if you are a Christian using marijuana in states or regions where it is legal, to observe the following as regards your state of mind: are you aware of voices, thoughts, images, feelings, and urges — purporting to be your own — that are violent, illicitly sexual, or otherwise ungodly, which you seem to have trouble controlling or effectively removing — as though they were equivalent to OCD? This is one sign of demonic interference in your mind and heart. There are other aspects, which I shall note below.

In Denver, CO, and Oakland, CA, they have legalized the psychedelic / sorcerous “magic (psilocybin) mushrooms”, while Oregon had legalized them for therapy. Many (including the prestigious NYTimes) advocate for both this and even LSD.

[Continued]

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

Returning to the matter of "in the Lord's house":

Let me posit a possible situation in an area where grass is fully legal for mere recreation. What would one think of a pastor, say in states where grass is legal (or those states where it is medicinally legal for pain), who, having smoked before the service, ministers while high? Or where a number in the church are (legally) high in the service? Would you assert that, if they’ve done it in moderation (or for pain relief), this is fully in accord with the word of God? Does using a Biblically forbidden substance for pain relief exempt one from obedience to God’s word? Did God have a good reason for forbidding pharmakeia drugs? (Note: this is not forbidding standard analgesics, even medicinal opiates. Psychedelics — pharmakeia substances — are a class unto themselves.)

Or if the assistant pastor — who teaches the teens Bible study — has pain from a sports injury, and smokes (even if with a prescription) beforehand, is that okay? Though surely there will be teenagers — as well as adults—who, knowing their pastors are smoking marijuana (under medical license) for pain relief, will say, “Well, if they can do it for pain — and are okay mentally, and also accepted by the church — why can’t I do it as well for pleasure? We can see it’s not harmful if used reasonably.”

Besides the corruption of morals of others, minors included, let me say what the Scripture view of this would be. A pastor has smoked his grass (ostensibly for pain) and expanded his consciousness by opening himself to the spiritual realm — much as the Hindus do to contact their spirit entities — and he is now open to energies and influences or thoughts that come to him from he-knows-not-where. But they seem to be godly and in accord with the Bible, and he has a new depth of feeling for the subject he is speaking on, and sharp insight, and he powerfully feels what he believes to be the presence and love of God. Has this man increased his godliness and anointing through the drug? Scripture says he has taken a drug (pharmakon) . . . known to induce magic spells, and to encourage the presence of spirits at magical ceremonies. Well, one wouldn’t call a church service a “magical ceremony” someone might respond! Unfortunately, using a sorcerous drug of the pharmakeia-class would turn that church service into a magic ceremony, replete with demonic agency operating through the minister intoxicated by it.
_______

It shall be — ultimately — the pastors / elders that will be the guardians, the watchmen on the walls, over the Lord's house, giving Christ to govern His people by the scepter of His word, rightly exposited. For it shall be given to them to "teach My people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean" (Ezek 44:23).

I think I'll leave it at this, if nothing further is required of me.

 

[Pergamum]

Sure. Let the pastor take Opiods or Fentanyl to be a better role model. As long as it is not a "sorcerous drug."

It is a hallmark of animism to believe that dead or inanimate objects possess spiritual power. Your view is basically animism.

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

Hello Perg,

I specifically address that idea ("inanimate objects possess spiritual power") in my post 57, denying and refuting such a thing.

If a pastor is in such a state that he needs fentanyl or opioids for pain he ought not be in the pulpit. In my post-operation uses of codeine and opioids I was in no shape to minister. I am sorry you have suffered the pain and discomfort you have in your service on the mission field.

 

[Susan777]

and he is now open to energies and influences or thoughts that come to him from he-knows-not-where. But they seem to be godly and in accord with the Bible, and he has a new depth of feeling for the subject he is speaking on, and sharp insight, and he powerfully feels what he believes to be the presence and love of God. Has this man increased his godliness and anointing through the drug?

Exactly. As a young adult I experienced this myself once through a particular drug, I felt that “oneness” which is a powerful demonic lie. It is very seductive and overwhelming in intensity. I have absolutely no doubt that what I experienced was demonic in origin although I thought I had passed into the universal godhood Of One-ism. I’ve no nostalgia for those hippy days. It was not a time of innocence. I lost several friends and saw so many more friends absolutely destroyed by the evil one.

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

Right, Susan — counterfeit spiritual experience is one of the trademark works of the demonic realm, whether it be of the pagan-mystic sort, or the "Christian", also through deception of various kinds. I'm glad the Saviour rescued you out of it. Another trademark area is simply intensifying pleasure, or other human faculties, which nonetheless are aspects of "recreational" sorcery — strange times we are in, to put it mildly.

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

Some new developments:

I recently was recommended a book to read, Alex Berenson’s, Tell Your Children: The Truth About Marijuana, Mental Illness, and Violence ( Free Press (January, 2019). On the one hand it is a thoroughly secular work, chock full of scientific studies from around the world — both statistical and psychiatric — and it considers the mental illness violence according to the psychiatric paradigm, and the violence referenced (in addition to the scientific reports) from police, governmental, and prison records as well. I thought Berenson’s book was excellent for a secular book — it’s dynamite in its depth and thoroughness! Immensely valuable for its research and information. It does remain that it has no spiritual orientation at all. Even so, it has alarmed me beyond what I previously had been before reading it, given the contemporary cultural impact it depicts.

Those folks — believers — with spiritual discernment, can extrapolate the many reports from the book to their Christian understanding: hearing voices is not merely, that is, not only, a psychological phenomenon, but the voices, whisperings, and thoughts that are known as fiery darts in Scripture (Eph 6:16), as well as ungodly images, impulses/urges, and wicked “insights”. Christians can read between the lines and see the demonic forces and influences affecting these people.

Another aspect of Berenson’s work is the strong and repeated emphasis on the difference between the potency marijuana had in the previous century, the 20th, and the strength of what is produced and sold now. The grass is often 20 to 40 times stronger now than before, and the distilled derivative products, “wax”, “glass”, and “shatter”, far more potent yet, almost pure THC.

So if the earlier — 60s through 80s — stuff was sufficient to expose us to the influence and presence of the demonic, then it is a no-brainer the modern marijuana has far greater danger. We regularly see men and women under its influence acting as though — in the book, and in the media — temporarily possessed by a devil when they “snap” and easily are moved to commit murder over trivial offences, or without any provocation at all.

It is as though we humans are being taken over — possessed — while under the intoxication of this extraordinarily powerful yet fully legal (in some states, as NY now is) recreational sorcery. And if that weren’t enough, just Sunday — the Lord’s Day — this article in the NY Times appeared:

There Is a Lot of [Psychedelic] Fungus Among Us - NYT

There Is a Lot of Fungus Among Us (Published 2021)

Coffee for immune support. Supplements for inflammation. And psychedelics promising relief from serious ailments. Mushrooms are everywhere, and investors are paying attention.

www.nytimes.com

“There Is a Lot of Fungus Among Us
Coffee for immune support. Supplements for inflammation. And psychedelics promising relief from serious ailments. Mushrooms are everywhere, and investors are paying attention.”​

The influential NY Times has been pushing for legalized mushrooms — and other psychedelics, including LSD — as therapeutic for years, which is how marijuana got its foot in the door: if it’s legitimate for therapy, that is, medicinal, thus good for you, then it is ultimately safe — so the reasoning goes.

Amid the tsunami of occult force and presence being poured into the collective consciousness through the “recreational sorcery” of the day, now we get word of an even more powerful accelerant added to the mix (as noted above, already legal in some areas of the U.S.), and who knows what shall develop from this, save the following:

When the nations are gathered to war against the camp of the saints, upon the loosing of the devil (Rev 20:7,8,9) in the “strong delusion” of 2 Thess 2:9,10,11,12, it appears that all humanity not sealed and protected by the Holy Spirit shall be inhabited by the demonic power raging in the zeitgeist — the spirit of the age — filling the collective consciousness of humankind with a frenzied fury against the LORD and His anointed (His saints specifically targeted) -Psalm 2:1,2,3. In the midst of this murderous dynamic the Lord shall appear and rescue His people, which shall be the final Day of Vengeance.

 

[rareeves72]

My

I used medical marijuana gummies to help me sleep despite severe chronic pain until I got my procedure. It was safer than opiods and less addictive and felt better than Benadryl, which essentially intoxicates you as well and makes you groggy until the next day. It was a great relief and my sleep was finally restorative. But the Church is imbalanced on this issue. They prefer synthetic addictive opiods which cause many deaths to a little THC or CBD oil which tends to sooth a person and mellows out their anxieties.

Good preaching might prioritize the national epidemic of obesity which causes many to have chronic pain because their frames can't handle all that fat, and then they get hooked on opiods due to the back pain caused by their gluttony. Surely this kills more and is a bigger sin than medical marijuana.

My wife and I take CBD oil and yes, you are exactly right. It helps me tremendously with my medical PTSD. I work in a Surgical ICU and have witnessed a lot of death, pain, and suffering. So, it helps take me from an intense 8-9 to about a mellow 4-3.

 

[Pergamum]

My

My wife and I take CBD oil and yes, you are exactly right. It helps me tremendously with my medical PTSD. I work in a Surgical ICU and have witnessed a lot of death, pain, and suffering. So, it helps take me from an intense 8-9 to about a mellow 4-3.

Do you think it opens a portal to the demonic?

 

[rareeves72]

Do you think it opens a portal to the demonic?

No sir. CBD has no euphoric altering effects. In fact, it helps me to think clearly. It is truly amazing. I do not drink, smoke, or use any thing, so to be able to have clarity and calmness in the storm of thoughts and worry (ptsd) is good. CBD is non addictive. CBD helps my son who has has cerebral palsy.

 

[rareeves72]

No sir. CBD has no euphoric altering effects. In fact, it helps me to think clearly. It is truly amazing. I do not drink, smoke, or use any thing, so to be able to have clarity and calmness in the storm of thoughts and worry (ptsd) is good. CBD is non addictive. CBD helps my son who has has cerebral palsy.

Also there is some CBD oil that has THC in it and that is the chemical that alters moods. The one we use is THC free.