What would you say?

[The Calvinist Cop]

What would say or ask?
A friend of mine recently encountered a well known "preacher" in the Houston area.....I asked my friend what he said and what you wanted to say? He only asked "are you having your best life now?" and said that he wanted to ask questions such as once saved always saved? or view on gay rights, abortion, or other sociopolitical views.
He asked what I would say or ask? I would ask him to read 2 Peter 2 aloud.
What would you ask a false teacher?

 

[Mushroom]

"Do you hear the weeping and gnashing of teeth of those who have died in their sins by following your teaching?"

 

[SolaScriptura]

I would like to say, "Pardon me... do you have any Grey Poupon?"

But I'd probably actually just say, "Hello, my name is Ben. How do you do?"

 

[Edward]

"Hello, my name is Ben. How do you do?"

Paraphrase of a Johnny Cash line?

 

[VictorBravo]

I had a friend who was reading his Bible in a restaurant. A prominent visiting "revival" preacher had his entourage at a table next to him. The Preacher was regaling the crowd with stories of his triumphs and success at winning conversions.

The Preacher noticed my friend, got up and approached him, saying, "understandest thou what thou readest?"

To which my friend replied, "How can I, when I am so distracted by men professing to be wise?"

The Preacher knew his Bible well enough to go back to his table.

 

[SolaScriptura]

"Hello, my name is Ben. How do you do?"

Paraphrase of a Johnny Cash line?

 

[GloriousBoaz]

I have a lot of stories some not handled well and others better. I remember once being on campus and I asked a gentleman about his religious convictions who replied he was catholic and in my most friendly tone I said "Do you mind if I ask you another question?" to which he acquiesced. I then asked him if he had the fruits of repentance in his life. He got quiet then said "That is the most offensive thing anyone has ever said to me." To which I replied not so softspokenly as before "Good! The Word of God offends the unrighteous!" It could have been handled better but what can you do? When learn as we go, and I don't think I would take that one back because that was most likely exactly what God wanted him to hear at the time. I also remember telling some girls on campus who stated they enjoy listening to a very profane unglody rap station (sexual and drug content is the whole sum of the song lyrics) that all who listen to that are going to hell and they are included. I have since mellowed out a lot like when I confronted someone recently who the first thing they said to me was "Have you heard of Charles Finney" by the end of that convo the women with him had said that I am trying to divide the church and that doctrine is from satan. I told them that Finney was a wolf in sheep's clothing then went and wept around the cornering pleading for their souls.

 

[mlvn]

I have not read anything much of Charles Finney but heard him once quoted, something to the affect of a mature one in Christ can obtain a "perfection." It's been years but it was so shocking that the name stood permanently engraved in my brain or my heart as tragic theology. Learning more "red flag" names as time goes on and as I grow.

 

[GloriousBoaz]

I'm pretty sure that sounds right that Finney would have been carrying on the Wesleyian tradition of perfectionism, that you get a second blessing, a second work of grace which then enables you to no longer commit willful sins and only commit unintentional sins. Yeah Finney started the whole rage of entertaining preaching, as he subscribed to moral government theology, he was proven to have no lasting results of fruit from the second "great awakening" his close associate during that time said that the people who "converted" under his preaching were like piece of coal that once they stopped burning, once their fire went out they were nearly impossible to relight, i think it was new england? that is called the burnt over district because of this, Michael Horton has a good article on Finney, he shows that Finney taught that there is no such thing as imputed righteousness of Christ, original sin, or supernatural regeneration (that being born again was just a moral choice to live for God and act more morally than before). the one reference I would dispute with in Horton's paper is that he says that Finney didn't believe in substitutionary atonement (which I think finney did still have somethign wrong with his view of justification) but the quote Michael was working with from Finney, I read it in context of Finney's original words and I believe Finney was preaching against limited atonement which is still not good but less of a heresy than if he was preaching against atonement period, here is the quote from Finney: ""assumes that the atonement was a literal payment of a debt, which we have seen does not consist with the nature of the atonement ... It is true, that the atonement, of itself, does not secure the salvation of any one" (p.217)." now that sounds really bad right? but it was in the context (if my memory serves me) of limited atonement which is generally considered an in house debate between saved arminian's and saved calvinist whereas if this quote said exactly what it seems to say here out of context it would be utter and outright heresy. Here is the Finney article by Horton The Disturbing Legacy of Charles Finney - Dr. Michael Horton

Here is Finney's view of the atonement the quote I just pulled out from Horton is number 10 Finney's Systematic Theology--1851 Edition--Lecture XXXV if you are curious you could see if I'm reading that wrong but it sees Finney is arguing for universal atonement... It is quite possible I'm reading Finney wrong but honestly I don't feel like reading through him right now. I tried reading some of his systematic theology and it was one of the most confusing things i've ever tried to read with very little scripture references. If anyone want to chime in feel free I don't want to say anything beyond what is true with Finney, I don't want to use strawman arguments but I usually advise to steer clear of Finney. A friend of mine that was in our bible study started readin Finney heavy and started questioning original sin and Augustine and started his own church.

 

[SinnerSavedByChrist]

I have a lot of stories some not handled well and others better. I remember once being on campus and I asked a gentleman about his religious convictions who replied he was catholic and in my most friendly tone I said "Do you mind if I ask you another question?" to which he acquiesced. I then asked him if he had the fruits of repentance in his life. He got quiet then said "That is the most offensive thing anyone has ever said to me." To which I replied not so softspokenly as before "Good! The Word of God offends the unrighteous!" It could have been handled better but what can you do? When learn as we go, and I don't think I would take that one back because that was most likely exactly what God wanted him to hear at the time. I also remember telling some girls on campus who stated they enjoy listening to a very profane unglody rap station (sexual and drug content is the whole sum of the song lyrics) that all who listen to that are going to hell and they are included. I have since mellowed out a lot like when I confronted someone recently who the first thing they said to me was "Have you heard of Charles Finney" by the end of that convo the women with him had said that I am trying to divide the church and that doctrine is from satan. I told them that Finney was a wolf in sheep's clothing then went and wept around the cornering pleading for their souls.

I love the fire which God has kindled in you for lost souls. Praise God that He has tempered some of the rough edges in you (for I pray He will also do the same for me).

But there is NOTHING as precious as a HOLY ZEAL from God to convict sinners of their sin, that they might fly to Jesus Christ!!!!!!

(And yes Finney is a HERETIC of the first order).

 

[GloriousBoaz]

Nothing like being out there on the streets is there Michael? So are you a pretty fiery guy when it comes to street preaching?

 

[antony73]

Actually, I would place myself in the category of once being a false teacher, and it was a street preacher that played one of the many parts leading up to my conversion. And all he did was to show the truth of God's Word. He wasn't being smart or high minded. Just showed the truth. If the heart isn't right, if the Holy Spirit isn't at work then no amount of scriptural reasoning or clever arguments can make a difference. But that's not to say that seed isn't being sown. Some false teachers, no matter how much they fight you, continue preaching corrupt or liberal messages, just need time.

Love, can make all the difference in trying to reach out to false teachers.

 

[GloriousBoaz]

I remember telling the most hardened atheist I ever met on campus "God loves you" repeatedly. I wasn't nor am I now in the habit of doing that, and more so now that I am set on limited atonement do I say that but I had just at that time read the cross and the switch blade and David Wilkerson had said that the the leader of one of the biggest hardest gangs in New York City and if I remember right he fell to his knees right there. Well this atheist I was talking to only seemed to get more perturbed. Well "Love Wins" as Rob Bell would say... ahhhh haaaa just kidding I know Rob Bell is a heretic lol!!!!!!! ROFL. Inappropriate? Sry lol. Let's pray for Rob Bell now, and your false teacher friend too! Actually that's something I just keep falling down on the job with is to pray for Joel Osteen and those guys, I mean most of the people in their churches are there as God's judgment because they want their ears scratched, but man, I still could be praying for them more you know.

 

[antony73]

I remember Joel Osteen telling his congregation, in almost a Tony Robbins style, that 2011 was going to be an absolutely great year. Which of course was met with tremendous thunderous applause and cheers of jubilation. I wonder... what verse did he get that statement from???

 

[jandrusk]

Does Jesus Christ know you?