When did tattoos become ok?

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I agree with the general concern here.

When I was commissioned as a 2nd Lt in the Marine Corps in 1990, it was well understood that Marine officers did not get tattoos. That was not because every officer had a carefully footnoted biblical argument about Leviticus 19, nor because every tattoo was treated as some uniquely damnable sin. It was part of a broader officer culture that still retained something of a gentlemanly ideal. Tattoos were viewed as transgressive. The people you most commonly associated with tattoos were sailors, bikers, and others who were, in one way or another, outside the respectable mainstream.

Now that cultural memory is almost gone. Tattoos are everywhere, and because they are everywhere, it becomes very difficult to argue against them without immediately being accused of legalism. If a person asks, “Where is the verse?” the discussion often ends there. Unless you can produce a specific proof text that settles the matter in one sentence, the assumption is that the practice must be morally indifferent.

But I do wonder whether that way of reasoning has left us unable to notice cultural decay except in the most extreme forms. As the culture becomes more pagan, anarchic, and expressive of rebellion against givenness, even basic inherited judgments become harder to defend. No tattoos. No marijuana. No casual use of ketamine, LSD, or magic mushrooms. Increasingly, the burden of proof seems to rest entirely on the person saying, “Perhaps Christians should not normalize this.”

Part of the issue is that we have largely lost the category of transgression. If the broader culture accepts something, and if we cannot immediately quote a verse that forbids it in exactly those terms, we tend to conclude that it must be obviously indifferent. But prior generations often had moral instincts formed by a larger Christian social imagination. They understood that not everything unwise, immodest, rebellious, or culturally disordered appears in Scripture as a neat itemized prohibition.

That does not mean every person with a tattoo is wicked, or that every tattoo has the same moral meaning in every circumstance. But it does mean we should at least ask why a practice once widely regarded as transgressive became normal at precisely the same time the culture was becoming more self-expressive, body-modifying, authority-rejecting, and pagan in its assumptions.

Maybe the question is not merely, “Can I find a verse that absolutely forbids this?” Maybe the better question is, “What sort of people are we becoming, and why are Christians so often only one step behind the culture in declaring yesterday’s transgressions today’s matters of indifference?”
 
Not to derail the thread, but this reminds me (in some respects) of the burial-versus-cremation debate.
It does… Once upon a time there was a general consensus amongst Christians… And that consensus is now gone. and frankly,

Sadly, I believe that our inability to have a consensus about what cultural behaviors and public actions and expressions of personal conduct are and are not acceptable is inherently postmodern, and will undermine any attempt to come together to create some form of coherent Christian culture.
 
It does… Once upon a time there was a general consensus amongst Christians… And that consensus is now gone. and frankly,

Sadly, I believe that our inability to have a consensus about what cultural behaviors and public actions and expressions of personal conduct are and are not acceptable is inherently postmodern, and will undermine any attempt to come together to create some form of coherent Christian culture.
Agreed. This is a disappointing time indeed in America
 
It does… Once upon a time there was a general consensus amongst Christians… And that consensus is now gone. and frankly,

Sadly, I believe that our inability to have a consensus about what cultural behaviors and public actions and expressions of personal conduct are and are not acceptable is inherently postmodern, and will undermine any attempt to come together to create some form of coherent Christian culture.
Was the general consensus among Christians a Christian thing specifically? Or was it a general consensus among the general public of which Christians were a part of? Tattoos were a rarity not that long ago. They were condemned by the average person because they were strange and unheard of.

Over time there have been many a general consensus among Christians and the society they were a part of, some right and some very wrong.
 
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Was the general consensus among Christians a Christian thing specifically? Or was it a general consensus among the general public or which Christians were a part of? Tattoos were a rarity not that long ago. They were condemned by the average person because they were strange and unheard of.

Over time there have been many a general consensus among Christians and the society they were a part of, some right and some very wrong.
How would one distinguish that when society was 99% made up of professing Christians? Christendom and society were one and the same.
 
Still not sure what your point is, sorry.
My point is that you asked if opposition to tattoos was distinctly Christian or societal, but there was no difference between those things. Society was Christian, Christians were members of society, and members of society were Christians. So the question is meaningless.
 
My point is that you asked if opposition to tattoos was distinctly Christian or societal, but there was no difference between those things. Society was Christian, Christians were members of society, and members of society were Christians. So the question is meaningless.
I guess I never got the impression we were talking about general consensus of those who merely identified as Christians. I thought we were talking about real Christians.
 
I guess I never got the impression we were talking about general consensus of those who merely identified as Christians. I thought we were talking about real Christians.
I am not a baptist. If someone professes faith in Christ and is baptized, they are a Christian, at least as far as membership in the visible church is concerned.
 
You think 90% of the population in the 1990s were baptized?
No 82.5%.

At least that is how I understand American Christianity. About 30% was evangelical and thus about 7.5% would not be baptized because they were still minors who couldn’t make a so called credible confession of their faith. And since 60% weren’t evangelical they must therefore have consisted of people who were baptized as infants.

We in the west in general didn’t grew up in a muslim society, nor a hindu society. For all that it is worth Christianity has been the salt that salted Europe and America. We can argue that is was still tasteless because of its impurities, but the influence of Christianity was there. Since Christianity is waning another creed and spirit has taken over. Now a person is his own god and his body is his own possession to do with whatever he pleases.
 
Pew Research, Gallup, and similar organizations rely on self-identification and allow a wide range of responses to indicate that the subject is a Christian. They don't require one to affirm that he is baptized, attends church, etc. This has been the case since WWII, so the high percentages reflect that sort of approach. I say this to make clear what that number means; the current Pew estimate is 62%.

Peace,
Alan
 
OK, I know that modern Christians tended to have no problem with tattoos. But when exactly did that change? As far as I’m aware, the pretty much uniform testimony of God‘s people in both the old and new covenants up until just a few decades ago was simple: God’s people don’t tattoo themselves.

God didn’t say, “pagans mark themselves with tatoos to show loyalty to their deities, so I want you to show your loyalty to me by marking yourself with tatoos depicting loyalty to me.” No, he said “do not put tatoo marks on yourself.”

For millennia that was understood, and only in recent times has that been deemed “unclear.”

When did this understanding change?
This is an interesting question that might not have a straight answer. I would assume that during the beginning of the Calvary Chapel movement, tattoos, along with other cultural norms became popular and accepted to some degree. Atleast in Southern California. Considering that many of the people targeted early on by CC and still to this day are not what one would call “ clean cut”.

In Hispanic churches, I don’t think it has become the norm whatsoever. Although tattoos have sort of fallen into indifference in most Hispanic churches since children no longer carry some of those “fundamentalist” tendencies.

Just my thoughts from a cultural perspective, not a theological one.
 
Sadly, I believe that our inability to have a consensus about what cultural behaviors and public actions and expressions of personal conduct are and are not acceptable is inherently postmodern, and will undermine any attempt to come together to create some form of coherent Christian culture.
To build further on this, I believe the discord in the Church in general is a sign of God’s judgment on our societies. We ought to pray for peace, mercy, and strength in the times ahead.
 
You definitely need more than a Mosaic restriction, if you mean to bind consciences across the board. Certainly there may be pragmatic, wisdom, health, historical, simple exercises of God-given authority, or other bases that may be used in the current age to prohibit or discourage tattoos. But your exegetical argument requires some heavy lifting that Leviticus will not supply; nay, it may scarcely be mentioned apart from historical reference.

Let me once again invoke Samuel Rutherford to the effect: that if one holds that tattoos are immoral for a professing Christian to acquire new on the basis that it was in the law and forbade by Moses, "I argue a peri, from the like, he is debtor to keep the whole law upon penalty of death."
Not sure if you are referring to my post above, but if so I wonder if you actually did listen to the sermon before making a comment about the exegetical argument (there are important disclaimers given to such objections in the message). Either way, it is overly simplistic and equivocation about keeping the whole law. The point of the law is love, and not all the Mosaic Law is obsolete (WCF 19). There are other things in the Levitical Law, such as not having sex with a sibling, that are not easily dismissed by that argument. It is considered understood that no one can keep any of the law perfectly. But this does not make all the Mosaic Law null and void as a way of life God desires for His set apart people, in the world but not of it. Neither does suggesting it still applies somehow imply a COW mindset that seems to be alluded to here. Paul's use of the Levitical Law in 1 Cor. 5 (as John Murray certainly argues in his Principles) would be one example to give further contemplation to this: Murray points out that in 1 Cor. 5, the man guilty of fornication not even named among the Gentiles is specifically guilty of affinity, and that the argument being based on Leviticus shows that OT ethics still apply in the NT.
 
Not sure if you are referring to my post above, but if so I wonder if you actually did listen to the sermon before making a comment about the exegetical argument (there are important disclaimers given to such objections in the message). Either way, it is overly simplistic and equivocation about keeping the whole law. The point of the law is love, and not all the Mosaic Law is obsolete (WCF 19). There are other things in the Levitical Law, such as not having sex with a sibling, that are not easily dismissed by that argument. It is considered understood that no one can keep any of the law perfectly. But this does not make all the Mosaic Law null and void as a way of life God desires for His set apart people, in the world but not of it. Neither does suggesting it still applies somehow imply a COW mindset that seems to be alluded to here. Paul's use of the Levitical Law in 1 Cor. 5 (as John Murray certainly argues in his Principles) would be one example to give further contemplation to this: Murray points out that in 1 Cor. 5, the man guilty of fornication not even named among the Gentiles is specifically guilty of affinity, and that the argument being based on Leviticus shows that OT ethics still apply in the NT.
I simply commented on the thread.

I will comment on this post, though not on the sermon referenced, because I have not listened. Perhaps it is one of the best, I have no idea.

There was no serious exegetical effort put forth in the thread to the moment I commented. My reference to Rutherford was apropos, given that the only scripture referred to was the Lev text. Rutherford specifically critiques appeal to the judicial Law as grounding a moral or legal dictat for the present age. His observation is all the more fitting because he commented while Christendom was alive and taken for granted.

Of course not all Moses is obsolete, but the judicial are specifically named in WCF19 as d.e.a.d, i.e. expired. The ceremonial are with no force. If the argument is that tattoos per se are immoral, then we have an eleventh moral commandment. I am sure that is not the argument made here.

But if there is a "moral core" to the prohibition, there is a duty to spell it out, and not appeal to any alleged self-evident quality in that regulation. For there were many laws given to ancient Israel which superficial appeal to a normative character only bind the conscience falsely.

We ought to follow the apostolic example and reason as they did, which was never a bare appeal to Moses. J. Murray, and anyone else, ought initially show how the NT expressly directs the Gentiles (sunk in fornication as a habit) to the lessons in the Law that should teach them anew the definition and the bounds of lawful sexul relation. Likewise, to gain afresh an accurate understanding of idolatry.

Is tattooing a form of fornication or idolatry? Perhaps the latter, but a sound argument is still demanded, and a clear relation to NT ethics, and a whole-Bible morality. To guard against a creeping legalistic or CoW mindset was and remains the responsibility of the NT church.
 
I simply commented on the thread.

I will comment on this post, though not on the sermon referenced, because I have not listened. Perhaps it is one of the best, I have no idea.

There was no serious exegetical effort put forth in the thread to the moment I commented. My reference to Rutherford was apropos, given that the only scripture referred to was the Lev text. Rutherford specifically critiques appeal to the judicial Law as grounding a moral or legal dictat for the present age. His observation is all the more fitting because he commented while Christendom was alive and taken for granted.

Of course not all Moses is obsolete, but the judicial are specifically named in WCF19 as d.e.a.d, i.e. expired. The ceremonial are with no force. If the argument is that tattoos per se are immoral, then we have an eleventh moral commandment. I am sure that is not the argument made here.

But if there is a "moral core" to the prohibition, there is a duty to spell it out, and not appeal to any alleged self-evident quality in that regulation. For there were many laws given to ancient Israel which superficial appeal to a normative character only bind the conscience falsely.

We ought to follow the apostolic example and reason as they did, which was never a bare appeal to Moses. J. Murray, and anyone else, ought initially show how the NT expressly directs the Gentiles (sunk in fornication as a habit) to the lessons in the Law that should teach them anew the definition and the bounds of lawful sexul relation. Likewise, to gain afresh an accurate understanding of idolatry.

Is tattooing a form of fornication or idolatry? Perhaps the latter, but a sound argument is still demanded, and a clear relation to NT ethics, and a whole-Bible morality. To guard against a creeping legalistic or CoW mindset was and remains the responsibility of the NT church.
Bruce - you attempted to turn the thread into something other than I originally intended, and in so doing sort of illustrate a point behind my original question.

FACT: For nearly 4000 years that 1 Bible verse in Leviticus was accepted as sufficient by the vast preponderance of God’s people.

But then somewhere around 1990 that started to change and by 2010 many Christians celebrate tattooing.

Is it because suddenly everyone got smart?
 
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Bruce - you attempted to turn the thread into something other than I originally intended, and in so doing sort of illustrate a point behind my original question.

FACT: For nearly 4000 years that 1 Bible verse in Leviticus was accepted as sufficient by the vast preponderance of God’s people.

But then somewhere around 1990 that started to change and by 2010 many Christians celebrate tattooing.

Is it because suddenly everyone got smart?
I didn't try to turn the thread into anything, just commented. The thread has evolved in wildly different ways since the comment was offered.

But to opine on what you just offered, I think (regardless of tattoo's propriety) it is a huge error--assuming it's accuracy--if in fact that the NT church has leaned for generations on a verse in Leviticus to bind Christian consciences.
 
To my recollection from my A/G days, the verse used was not the one in Lev. but the cultural case expressed well by some here in the skin of being the application of avoiding appearance of evil. (1 Thess. 5:22)
 
I simply commented on the thread.

I will comment on this post, though not on the sermon referenced, because I have not listened. Perhaps it is one of the best, I have no idea.

There was no serious exegetical effort put forth in the thread to the moment I commented. My reference to Rutherford was apropos, given that the only scripture referred to was the Lev text. Rutherford specifically critiques appeal to the judicial Law as grounding a moral or legal dictat for the present age. His observation is all the more fitting because he commented while Christendom was alive and taken for granted.

Of course not all Moses is obsolete, but the judicial are specifically named in WCF19 as d.e.a.d, i.e. expired. The ceremonial are with no force. If the argument is that tattoos per se are immoral, then we have an eleventh moral commandment. I am sure that is not the argument made here.

But if there is a "moral core" to the prohibition, there is a duty to spell it out, and not appeal to any alleged self-evident quality in that regulation. For there were many laws given to ancient Israel which superficial appeal to a normative character only bind the conscience falsely.

We ought to follow the apostolic example and reason as they did, which was never a bare appeal to Moses. J. Murray, and anyone else, ought initially show how the NT expressly directs the Gentiles (sunk in fornication as a habit) to the lessons in the Law that should teach them anew the definition and the bounds of lawful sexul relation. Likewise, to gain afresh an accurate understanding of idolatry.

Is tattooing a form of fornication or idolatry? Perhaps the latter, but a sound argument is still demanded, and a clear relation to NT ethics, and a whole-Bible morality. To guard against a creeping legalistic or CoW mindset was and remains the responsibility of the NT church.
Thank you for clarifying. In terms of my own post (which referenced Leviticus), the exegetical work and application were being made available for those who may have interest per the relevancy of the thread (I did not attempt to provide it within the post). Still, what follows in your response I think I spoke to above and also do in the sermon I link to sufficiently.
 
I didn't try to turn the thread into anything, just commented. The thread has evolved in wildly different ways since the comment was offered.

But to opine on what you just offered, I think (regardless of tattoo's propriety) it is a huge error--assuming it's accuracy--if in fact that the NT church has leaned for generations on a verse in Leviticus to bind Christian consciences.
To dismiss church history too quickly also would not necessarily be without error, nor to seemingly assume such precedent is only leaning on that one verse out of context of the whole of Scripture (my understanding as to why the Westminster Divines were hesitant to first provide Scripture references was that they could be rejected out of hand as insufficient Scripture proofs when they were not intended to be such in isolation but rather connected to the larger context and logical consent of all the parts). The historic understanding for millennia certainly is not irrelevant and is cause for pause and cautious consideration.
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Not to derail the thread, but this reminds me (in some respects) of the burial-versus-cremation debate.
Not looking to debate on this topic (nor the main one either). But for those interested, I also addressed this when preaching through Genesis. "Give a Graveside Witness": https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermons/21813039100. Just like to provide resources when we've touched on something at our church for those who may have interest.
 
Not looking to debate on this topic (nor the main one either). But for those interested, I also addressed this when preaching through Genesis. "Give a Graveside Witness": https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermons/21813039100. Just like to provide resources when we've touched on something at our church for those who may have interest.
Would a communicant member in your congregation getting a tattoo or approving the cremation of their (dead) spouse become an issue of discipline in your congregation?
 
Would a communicant member in your congregation getting a tattoo or approving the cremation of their (dead) spouse become an issue of discipline in your congregation?
No. Many things are preached that aren't all disciplined. But it does set an expectation and culture. More importantly our default is, "What do the Scriptures say on this matter." Every jot and tittle of all Christ expects of His disciples as set apart witnesses so to speak. And the pulpit is free to teach/proclaim the whole counsel of God while it's not practical to discipline everything (rebuke could be in order). You might have interest to hear the opening of the sermon I linked to above. Pastorally, I first met with an older gentleman who was covered with tattoos. So that he knew I wasn't picking on him in person but felt I had to teach the text in greater context (which exegetical preaching through books often brings up that are otherwise easy to ignore). He totally understood and supported. I explained the same for the rest of the congregation in the introduction (that we had spoken and he was good) as I anticipated they may be apprehensive about that context. I recall he smiled in the sermon especially with that intro. It went well. I also shared what one of our members in prison at the time had to say about the topic pre and post being a Christian (we met and ministered to him in prison). Especially these kinds of nuances are run through Session before preaching or approaching. Another thing that comes to mind: the stewardship of one's finances as unto the Lord is another consideration of wisdom to appeal to. Regarding the other topic, a newer member a few years ago went with cremation. It had already been planned and was not something we thought at that time was necessary to address. But if it came up as relevant in a sermon (the topic, not that situation) it might still be spoken to with careful considerations (and possibly again with a pastoral visit first).
 
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Yeah. My wife has a few tattoos. She got them when she was younger and if she could go back she wouldn't have done it. One is on her upper back by her neck, and she covers it up with clothing just so people don't see it and think she has some sort of wild side to her. She knows I don't care for them, but that doesn't affect my love for her in any way, and I don't judge her for something she did in the past. We both kind of recognize that as you get older they don't come across as tasteful and modest, but it doesn't affect us in any way negatively. You live and you learn.
 
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