Why Anglican?

Discussion in 'Ecclesiology' started by Ryan&Amber2013, Aug 29, 2017.

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  1. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    Again, depends on where the Anglicans are today. Africa isn't necessarily bad. The main "Canterbury" denoms are nearly apostate, if not already there. The jury is still out on the ACNA and AMiA.
     
  2. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Yes, as also was the term Overseer.There was not a really defined hierarchy between these roles within the church until later on.
     
  3. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Are they called Episcopalians just here then in the USA?
     
  4. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    No. The Episcoal Church is called such, but the AMiA and ACNA wouldn't call themselves that.
     
  5. Ryan&Amber2013

    Ryan&Amber2013 Puritan Board Junior

    So does that mean they are actually different roles?
     
  6. Edward

    Edward Puritan Board Doctor

    They also use the "Episcopal" label in the Middle East, the Sudan, Cuba, and the Philippines. Perhaps other locations I've missed.
     
  7. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Many Baptists tend to see them as being the same roles within the church, as the terms seemed to be interchangeable at time of writing.
     
  8. Jake

    Jake Puritan Board Junior

    I've heard Episcopal is actually a nod toward the Scottish Episcopal Church (which may have been the first to use that name) who helped the American branch become separate from the Church of England. Maybe someone can fill in the history as well. Other parts of the Anglican Communion use the term Episcopal, such as the Reformed Episcopal Church in Spain. Also, at least two "continuing" groups in the U.S. that are more conservative than the Protestant Episcopal Church (the member of the Anglican Communion): the Reformed Episcopal Church (now part of the ACNA) and the Charismatic Episcopal Church (not associated with the ACNA or the Anglican Communion).
     
  9. Parmenas

    Parmenas Puritan Board Freshman

    Another great Anglican Puritan was the holy Lewis Bayly, Bishop of Bangor, the author of The Practice of Piety.
     
  10. malcolmmaxwell60

    malcolmmaxwell60 Puritan Board Freshman

    When you have strong biblical leadership according to the word of God, you'll have a strong Presbyterian reformed churches according to Jeremiah 6:16.

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  11. LaurenC

    LaurenC Puritan Board Freshman

    I started reading from the beginning of the posts and only got through the first two pages but I had no idea that anyone had an issue with OPC in regards to how they explain the gospel. I thought OPC was really solid. Can anyone who expressed a problem with OPC explain in a little more detail what you're finding is wrong? I'm kind of concerned because I'm beginning to go to one and considering membership. Maybe I was asking the wrong questions. I've been more concerned that they're truly treat teaching the five Solas those are probably the most crucial things to me and to what I think the Bible is saying

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  12. LaurenC

    LaurenC Puritan Board Freshman

    I did see a short explanation from the person who has the username yuetters, I might have spelled that wrong but anyway, the exclamation didn't make sense it was something about offering the gospel and repentance and faith and it was things that sounded like normal preaching points, so I didn't know how that explanation was showing OPC had a problem (?)

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  13. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    I missed this side trail in the thread. Can OPC folk, perhaps @Alan D. Strange give feed back on the criticism (which I post below Lauren's comment)? Is the OPC nonpartisan when it comes to VanTillianism (v. Clark I assume) and when did the position of Murray on the free offer become part of the OPC system of doctrine?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  14. LaurenC

    LaurenC Puritan Board Freshman

    Thank you for trying to piece this all together. The explanations that you quoted don't sound like a problem to me so that is why I don't quite understand the problem. I don't know much about Van Til or that part of the topic(?), but the other half of what was said about- to offer the gospel to all and then those who respond are the ones that God's Spirit has moved in their hearts - I see no problem with that, do you?

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  15. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    The latter issue concerns the Murray view of the free offer of the gospel not just the free offer of the gospel generally. See the referenced review of Murray by Rev. Winzer at the link below. You can also do a search for the several threads over the years that have appeared on the PB. The Blue Banner, Volume 9 Issue 10-12. October-December 2000.
     
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  16. LaurenC

    LaurenC Puritan Board Freshman

    Thanks I'll take a look

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  17. yeutter

    yeutter Puritan Board Senior

    Now we are completely off the OP, but that is a good thing
    The 1948 General Assembly of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church received a majority and a minority report on the free well meant offer of the Gospel. This provides background to the issue I raised. www.opc.org/GA/free_offer.html
     
  18. Alan D. Strange

    Alan D. Strange Puritan Board Junior

    Chris:

    Neither the particulars of Dr. Van Til's position nor of Professor Murray's view of the nature of the divine will in the free offer are taken to be binding in or by the OPC. We believe that the debates regarding such are internecine and that one may fully subscribe the Westminster Standards and differ from certain particulars of Van Til or Murray.

    Granted, many in the OPC, especially among office-bearers (and I count myself among them), would self-identify as Van Tilians (over against classicists, empiricists, Clarkians, etc.) and as holding Murray's position on the free offer (contra that articulated by someone like Rev. M. Winzer). I know men, however, who hold other positions than those of Van Til and Murray and who serve faithfully as ministers or other office-bearers in the OPC.

    Now if one wished to argue that the views of Van Til and Murray violated the Standards and were impermissible, I doubt that such a one would be accepted by our judicatories. As it is, the views of CVT and JM are regarded as in harmony with the Standards but not explicitly taught in the Standards: thus they are not deemed as required by the Standards.

    I did see this earlier, Chris, and thought to say something but ultimately forebore. I am happy for the opportunity to clear the record.

    Peace,
    Alan
     
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  19. yeutter

    yeutter Puritan Board Senior

    In about 1979, the cases of Walter Wynn Kenyon and Mansfield Kaseman were decided by the judiciary of the UPCUSA in such a way that it caused many Bible believing northern Presbyterians to consider leaving the mainstream Church. Many office bearers and congregations of the UPCUSA [now the PCUSA, the mainline Presbyterian Church] ultimately left over the complete breakdown of Church discipline, and apostasy of the that denomination. Almost all of these office bearers and congregations went to the PCA. Only a handful went to the OPC. At that time I heard it said that one should think twice before going to the OPC; unless he was with VanTil on apologetics and Murray on the free well meant offer.
     
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  20. Ask Mr. Religion

    Ask Mr. Religion Flatly Unflappable

    I think Rev. Strange has set the record aright on this matter, despite what you have heard.
     
  21. TylerRay

    TylerRay Puritan Board Senior

    Thomas,
    I'd have to say that Dr. Strange's comment represents the truth of every Presbyterian body I have come across. I sympathize with you 100% in your views on these matters, but I am happy to be a part of the FC(C) even though my view of the free offer of the Gospel is in the minority. There are certainly majority positions on matters like this in the Free Church, but the majority's opinion is not binding.

    Presbyterian government is an ecclesiastical republic, not a democracy (how much that holds true in churches that practice good faith subscription and allow exceptions to the Confession of Faith is another question :worms:).
     
  22. yeutter

    yeutter Puritan Board Senior

    I appreciate the fact that official policy of the OPC is tolerance of divergent points of view on the free well meant offer. That was not the reality on the ground in the early 1980s. The OPC may be more tolerant on that issue now then when I was involved in the 1980s. I know that is in fact true of the OPC congregation near me.

    The last I checked candidates for ordination in the OPC were still examined on VanTillian apologetics. Anglicans in the continuing Anglican bodies in North America, with the exception of the Anglican Church of North America and the Reformed Episcopal Church, are, almost uniformly, committed to classical apologetics and reject presuppositionalism.
     
  23. Alan D. Strange

    Alan D. Strange Puritan Board Junior

    Mr. Yeutter:

    Candidates for ordination in the OPC are indeed examined in Apologetics (along with a host of other things). As a part of that, they will be asked about presuppositionalism. To be sure, many Reformed seminaries teach or are positive toward presuppositional apologetics. So there is a general, and natural (given its prevalence), expectation of presuppositionalism. Presuppositionalism enjoys widespread influence and many candidates espouse it.

    But it is not the case that CVT is regarded as orthodoxy from which one may not demur. One is not required to be a presuppositionalist. Yes, candidates are examined in apologetics but not in a way that requires them to affirm CVT.

    Peace,
    Alan
     
  24. LaurenC

    LaurenC Puritan Board Freshman

    Thanks I'll take a look at this. I never knew this whole topic was so extensive

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  25. Alan D. Strange

    Alan D. Strange Puritan Board Junior

    And with respect to what Lauren mentions, the free offer question, it is also the case that many in the OPC (and in the broader P&R churches) would construct the matter similarly to Professor Murray. I've heard candidates questioned as to their position and I would say that a clear majority take the position that Professor Murray did, writing for the committee.

    Such reports are for study and are not binding unless some further action is taken by the judicatory (to make it part of the doctrinal or polity standards). No such further action was taken and the minority was in no way proscribed in the aftermath of the committee report. [By the way, there is no such thing as a majority report; there is the committee report and minority report(s).] Again, most hold Murray's position but it is not prescribed in our judicatories.

    Peace,
    Alan
     
  26. SRoper

    SRoper Puritan Board Graduate

    Am I the only one who finds it disorienting to think of the Anglican Church as a refuge for hyper-Calvinists?
     
  27. Alan D. Strange

    Alan D. Strange Puritan Board Junior

    Scott R.

    I've found this whole thread rather incredible. It started with an innocent question by Ryan asking Anglicans to justify the superiority of their position biblically.

    We've gotten neither that, nor a Richard Hooker style of defense. Rather we got autobiographical reasons, some mild affirmation of Anglican doctrine (noting that the Articles of Religion are OK as far as they go) and practice, and an attack on another church that is not even aimed at that church's confessional teachings.

    'Tis a curiosity!

    Peace,
    Alan
     
  28. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Okay; I understand the context of the thread, but, so, let me get this straight. Reject the Murray view of the free offer and you're a hypercalvinist?
     
  29. Parmenas

    Parmenas Puritan Board Freshman

  30. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

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