Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Senior
In general, what makes the Anglican Church more biblical than the Presbyterian, according to some? For those of you who are Anglican, why so? Thanks!
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Here in the United States, I know a number of fellows who are attend an Anglican parish despite their own theological views. Some have been heavily influenced by Gerstner or Sproul but have never found their way to a Presbyterian Church, or Reformed Baptist Church that is tolerant of their perspective on apologetics. Some are uncomfortable with the lack of dignity that they have found in local Presbyterian or Baptist worship services and have found an Anglican parish that uses the Book of Common Prayer to structure their worship services, in a way in which they appreciateDespite my own theological views, I have never been happier church-wise since I started attending an evangelical Reformed Anglican congregation (though the denomination, as a whole, is a train-wreck). That is weird in many ways, but it is a fact of experience. Strictly speaking, the Irish Articles of Religion were never legally repealed as the doctrinal standards of the Reformed Church of Ireland and they are closer to the Westminster Confession than the 39 Articles. Even the worship of the CofI was more Puritanical in the 17th century than other Anglican communions (in fact, uninspired hymns were not widely accepted until the 19th century), so there is some precedent for my views in my current denomination's history.
Many of the Anglicans groups have also turned away from the Lord though, as they have seemed to adopt the gay stances that plagued some other church groups. Also, doesn't the Anglican church teach infant regeneration? I am asking that, as might be misunderstanding their view on this issue, and hope to have it clarified.I would not be so presumptuous to say that the Anglican Church is more biblical than the Presbyterian Kirk. For me it was a matter of alternatives. I had come to the point I could not remain in the OPC; because of her commitment to the apologetics of VanTil and the free well meant offer. The other good local Presbyterian/Reformed alternatives were still connected with denominations; that I believed to be apostate.
I was comfortable subscribing to the 39 Articles, and was comfortable with the liturgy found in the Book of Common Prayer. During my time in the Army, I frequently was assigned to bases where the Protestant chaplains were liberals. As a result, I had worshiped in Anglican Churches when I was overseas.
Most Anglican parishes still use the common cup. I believe that to be scriptural. No local Presbyterian/Reformed Church uses the common cup.
As I travel in Asia, I can usually find a faithful Anglican parish where I can worship. Sadly that is no longer true in Singapore, where Anglicanism is badly infected with Pentecostalism.
I have appreciated the indulgence of the Presbyterian and Reformed brethren in allowing me to participate here on Puritan Board
Are the 39 Articles held in the same light as the Confessions then?I would not be so presumptuous to say that the Anglican Church is more biblical than the Presbyterian Kirk. For me it was a matter of alternatives. I had come to the point I could not remain in the OPC; because of her commitment to the apologetics of VanTil and the free well meant offer. The other good local Presbyterian/Reformed alternatives were still connected with denominations; that I believed to be apostate.
I was comfortable subscribing to the 39 Articles, and was comfortable with the liturgy found in the Book of Common Prayer. During my time in the Army, I frequently was assigned to bases where the Protestant chaplains were liberals. As a result, I had worshiped in Anglican Churches when I was overseas.
Most Anglican parishes still use the common cup. I believe that to be scriptural. No local Presbyterian/Reformed Church uses the common cup.
As I travel in Asia, I can usually find a faithful Anglican parish where I can worship. Sadly that is no longer true in Singapore, where Anglicanism is badly infected with Pentecostalism.
I have appreciated the indulgence of the Presbyterian and Reformed brethren in allowing me to participate here on Puritan Board
I know of Presbyterian churches with the same issues.Many of the Anglicans groups have also turned away from the Lord though, as they have seemed to adopt the gay stances that plagued some other church groups. Also, doesn't the Anglican church teach infant regeneration? I am asking that, as might be misunderstanding their view on this issue, and hope to have it clarified.
Yes, if the Presbyterian or Reformed congregation was not committed to well meant offer of the Gospel, and was not committed to VanTillian apologetics, and had an orderly worship service, and properly fenced the table.So it seems that most would be Presbyterian if the circumstances were right?
Yes, many Anglican groups are apostate. The Archbishops of Canterbury and York are apostate. Many Anglican bodies are also badly infected with Pentecostalism. Many Anglican groups ordain women. Many Anglican groups are sodomite tolerant.Many of the Anglicans groups have also turned away from the Lord though, as they have seemed to adopt the gay stances that plagued some other church groups. Also, doesn't the Anglican church teach infant regeneration? I am asking that, as might be misunderstanding their view on this issue, and hope to have it clarified.
Historically the Thirty-nine Articles have been held to be binding on the clergy but do not rise to being a form of subscription.Are the 39 Articles held in the same light as the Confessions then?
What is the Anglican worship and the government style?I know of Presbyterian churches with the same issues.
The major differences between classical Anglicanism and classical Presbyterianism are in their respective worship forms and forms of government. At the root of these differences is a difference in conviction on how Christ rules his Church.
The Anglican church does seem to support baptism as regenerating the infant into salvation, as those such as NT Wright sees it as being the gateway into the Kingdom of God.Yes, if the Presbyterian or Reformed congregation was not committed to well meant offer of the Gospel, and was not committed to VanTillian apologetics, and had an orderly worship service, and properly fenced the table.
Yes, many Anglican groups are apostate. The Archbishops of Canterbury and York are apostate. Many Anglican bodies are also badly infected with Pentecostalism. Many Anglican groups ordain women. Many Anglican groups are sodomite tolerant.
Some Anglicans believe the Thirty-nine Articles teach baptismal regeneration in the same sense that Luther taught it, other believe it teaches presumptive regeneration. Read Article XXVII and decide if it of necessity teaches baptismal regeneration.
Historically the Thirty-nine Articles have been held to be binding on the clergy but do not rise to being a form of subscription.
There still seems to be a remnant within the Anglican church, such as persons like a JI Packer.So was it a solid church in the times of puritanism? Quite a few Puritans were Anglican I know.
Would you mind elaborating more on this?I had come to the point I could not remain in the OPC; because of her commitment to the apologetics of VanTil and the free well meant offer.
I think Rev. Matthew Winzer elaborated on this point when he examined Professor John Murray's treatment of the Free Offer.Would you mind elaborating more on this?
Anglican Church polity is episcopal. Anglicans understand the office of Bishop to be distinct from the office of presbyter.What is the Anglican worship and the government style?
There still seems to be a remnant within the Anglican church, such as persons like a JI Packer.
Jacob is correct, with the exception of the Province of South Africa, the Anglican Churches in Africa are generally orthodox. All Anglican bodies in Africa, with the exception of South Africa, oppose the liberal apostate tendencies of the Church of England. Some of the Anglican provinces in East Africa are badly infected by Pentecostalism. Some East African provinces are ordaining women. On the other hand, the Anglican Provinces of Nigeria are conservative and confessional. It is numerically the largest Anglican body in the world. Most dioceses in Nigeria are led by bishops who are reformed though a few may be Amyrauldian.Most of the Anglican Church is best represented by the Global South (in Africa). The Africans delivered a powerful rebuke to Canterbury a few years ago.
I would not be so presumptuous to say that the Anglican Church is more biblical than the Presbyterian Kirk [. . .]
Anglican Church polity is episcopal. Anglicans understand the office of Bishop to be distinct from the office of presbyter.
Anglicans worship liturgically. The way in which Anglicans worship is set forth in the Book of Common Prayer.
www.justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/
What are your thoughts on Anglican church government, Mr. Yeutter?
Good point. Where does the office of bishop appear in the Bible? I know they didn't just make it up - they must get it from someplace.
I would delete Stott, and add Peter Toon, Philip Edgcombe Hughes, Augustus Toplady, and Alec MoyterI can't speak to all the ins and outs of Anglicanism, but I can say that I've learned a lot from the writings of John Newton, J. C. Ryle, John R. W. Stott, and J. I. Packer - Anglicans all!
Bishop is also called overseers, and basically, the terms overseers/Bishops/Pastors are used interchangeable fashion.Good point. Where does the office of bishop appear in the Bible? I know they didn't just make it up - they must get it from someplace.
I would delete Stott, and add Peter Toon, Philip Edgcombe Hughes, Augustus Toplady, and Alec Moyter
Stott became a believer in annihilation in his later years though.I would add Toon, Hughes, Toplady, and Motyer - and keep Stott.
Stott became a believer in annihilation in his later years though.
I agree with you about him, as read his the Cross of Christ many times when recently saved, was just pointing out his one big flaw in his theology.Actually, after having been rather severely criticized for holding that position, Stott backed off and declared himself to be "agnostic" on the question. That's still not acceptable, of course but, aside from that, I wouldn't want to be without many of his other writings, such as his commentary on Romans (one of the better ones) or his book The Cross of Christ. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.
I agree with you about him, as read his the Cross of Christ many times when recently saved, was just pointing out his one big flaw in his theology.
Not Van Tillian nor Gordon Clarkian as he has been interpreted by some now days. Both have good things and bad. We fence the table in the RPCNA in a proper manner I believe. Our Elders interview those who partake of Communion concerning 1 Corinthians 11 to protect all. We are Psalm singers believing it to be a great thing.Yes, if the Presbyterian or Reformed congregation was not committed to well meant offer of the Gospel, and was not committed to VanTillian apologetics, and had an orderly worship service, and properly fenced the table.