Won't the devil feel like he won?

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dog8food

Puritan Board Freshman
Just going by what I know, it really doesn't seem like a majority of people throughout the history of the world have died as professing Christians. The devil knows scripture. He must know that his end is near and inevitable, so perhaps the only satisfaction he gets is taking as many lost souls with him to the pit as is possible. If it's a numbers game, won't the devil feel victorious?
 
He won't feel victorious when he has to bow his knee at the name of Jesus. He will be submitting to the King--defeated.
 
He'll also be watching the whole rest of the world bowing, and people from every tribe and nation singing the Hallelujah chorus.
 
He won't feel victorious when he has to bow his knee at the name of Jesus. He will be submitting to the King--defeated.

On top of this, he will face the unrelenting, fierce and fiery wrath of the triune God for all eternity..........
 
That doesn't really answer my question though. Still, the best thing the devil can do is bring as many people as possible with him and away from God, right? Otherwise why does he tempt us? If he's so twisted, and he knows of his futility, why wouldn't he get some satisfaction out of it? Obviously he'd rather burn than be with God, otherwise he'd repent, since he does know who Jesus is... so then he'd rather more people burn as well.
 
That doesn't really answer my question though. Still, the best thing the devil can do is bring as many people as possible with him and away from God, right? Otherwise why does he tempt us? If he's so twisted, and he knows of his futility, why wouldn't he get some satisfaction out of it? Obviously he'd rather burn than be with God, otherwise he'd repent, since he does know who Jesus is... so then he'd rather more people burn as well.

The Devil is blinded by his own sin, just like any sinner.
 
Just going by what I know, it really doesn't seem like a majority of people throughout the history of the world have died as professing Christians.

While I know what you mean Juan, you are making an assumption here which cannot be proven - that the number of the redeemed elect will be smaller, much smaller that those cast into the lake of fire.

While I cannot fully explain it, I have a hard time accepting that that will be the case, is God's covenant not that the blessed offspring of Abraham revealing the righteosness of God will be as the number of the stars and the sand, pointing to a huge number?

Are we not told that Christ shall have preeminence in everything? ESV Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent

Shall not the mountain be higher than all others? i.e. the kingdom of Christ greater than all? ESV Isaiah 2:2 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it,

Spurgeon preaching on Matt 8:11 says this, (by the way not suggesting that you're one of those whom he refers to as narrow minded bigots!)

" “. . . my text hath a yet greater depth of sweetness, for it says that “many shall come and shall sit down.” Some narrow-minded bigots think that heaven will be a very small place, where there will be a very few people, who went to their chapel or their church. I confess, I have no wish for a very small heaven, and love to read in the Scriptures that there are many mansions in my Father’s house. How often do I hear people say, “Ah! strait is the gate and narrow is the way, and few there be that find it. There will be very few in heaven; there will be most lost.”My friend I differ from you. Do you think that Christ will let the devil beat him? that he will let the devil have more in hell than there will be in heaven? No: it is impossible. For then Satan would laugh at Christ. There will be more in heaven than there are among the lost. God says, that “there will be a number that no man can number who will be saved;” but he never says that there will be a number that no man can number that will be lost. There will be a host beyond all count who will get into heaven."
 
Spurgeon preaching on Matt 8:11 says this, (by the way not suggesting that you're one of those whom he refers to as narrow minded bigots!)

" “. . . my text hath a yet greater depth of sweetness, for it says that “many shall come and shall sit down.” Some narrow-minded bigots think that heaven will be a very small place, where there will be a very few people, who went to their chapel or their church. I confess, I have no wish for a very small heaven, and love to read in the Scriptures that there are many mansions in my Father’s house. How often do I hear people say, “Ah! strait is the gate and narrow is the way, and few there be that find it. There will be very few in heaven; there will be most lost.”My friend I differ from you. Do you think that Christ will let the devil beat him? that he will let the devil have more in hell than there will be in heaven? No: it is impossible. For then Satan would laugh at Christ. There will be more in heaven than there are among the lost. God says, that “there will be a number that no man can number who will be saved;” but he never says that there will be a number that no man can number that will be lost. There will be a host beyond all count who will get into heaven."

Ok here we have God in competition with satan and God beats him. Also I am of the opinion that the saved will number the stars in the sky and the sand of the seashore BUT I think the damned are the number of the sands between the seashore and stars beyond our natural eye shot. Does God loose? I think not for this is not a numbers game, but a "game" that God wins no matter how the number works out.

This In my most humble opinion is where Pastor Spurgen missed the mark.
 
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I'd been thinking of an issue late last week, and then one of my pastors mentioned it in his sermon yesterday- all the aborted babies that will rise up and give witness on Judgment Day. Obviously, the number envisioned will depend on your view of the salvation of babies. But they are all little souls!
 
The devil may feel like he's winning. The difference is, God is the sovereign one, and Satan is not. The way I see it, Satan simply draws satisfaction at his own delusion of convincing people of his lies thinking he is bringing a big army with him.
What I am still debating, is if he knows the outcome, or if he's delusional about it himself. We know that God has already decreed everything to happen, but Satan is not all knowing.
 
Satan knows hes defeated already and is taking all the reprobates available to him . Its a paradox situation - Satan knows hes lost the fight but at the same time he cannot and will not accept the fact , Thats due to his pride and arrogance . Hope this helps
 
OP - If it's a numbers game, won't the devil feel victorious?
No - it is not a numbers game.

What basis do we have to deduce that because there are more reprobates than elect, then the devil has won and God has lost? Absolutely nothing.
1 - God is the King and always the victor
2 - Devil is God's tool to achieve His sovereign purposes
3 - Devil will ultimately bow his knee and suffer for eternity along with reprobates

The numbers game that we can see,
Are all the elect saved? Absolutely yes - 100%
Are all the reprobate damned? Absolutely yes - 100%
How many here and how many there? Howmuchever God decreed? - 100%
Did God get glory from 100% of people and angels (elect and reprobate) - Absolutely yes 100%

Who is the victor in this numbers game? The Sovereign Lord

How then can the devil think he won?
 
I'm not sure we know what the devil thinks; but if we did, should we care? It seems almost axiomatic that he's wrong.
 
Just going by what I know, it really doesn't seem like a majority of people throughout the history of the world have died as professing Christians.

While I know what you mean Juan, you are making an assumption here which cannot be proven - that the number of the redeemed elect will be smaller, much smaller that those cast into the lake of fire.

While I cannot fully explain it, I have a hard time accepting that that will be the case, is God's covenant not that the blessed offspring of Abraham revealing the righteosness of God will be as the number of the stars and the sand, pointing to a huge number?

Are we not told that Christ shall have preeminence in everything? ESV Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent

Shall not the mountain be higher than all others? i.e. the kingdom of Christ greater than all? ESV Isaiah 2:2 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it,

Spurgeon preaching on Matt 8:11 says this, (by the way not suggesting that you're one of those whom he refers to as narrow minded bigots!)

" “. . . my text hath a yet greater depth of sweetness, for it says that “many shall come and shall sit down.” Some narrow-minded bigots think that heaven will be a very small place, where there will be a very few people, who went to their chapel or their church. I confess, I have no wish for a very small heaven, and love to read in the Scriptures that there are many mansions in my Father’s house. How often do I hear people say, “Ah! strait is the gate and narrow is the way, and few there be that find it. There will be very few in heaven; there will be most lost.”My friend I differ from you. Do you think that Christ will let the devil beat him? that he will let the devil have more in hell than there will be in heaven? No: it is impossible. For then Satan would laugh at Christ. There will be more in heaven than there are among the lost. God says, that “there will be a number that no man can number who will be saved;” but he never says that there will be a number that no man can number that will be lost. There will be a host beyond all count who will get into heaven."
See, this is usually similar to the conclusion that I must accept. I understand what others are trying to say, that God always wins no matter what, even if it means more souls are in the eternal lake of fire, but that really doesn't sound like the God I read about, such as in 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4. If God desires that everyone is saved, why wouldn't His desire be fulfilled... or is His desire different from His sovereign purpose?

I contend that the "secret things" of the Lord as seen in Deuteronomy 29:29 and the like, include God's desires being fulfilled perfectly... and does He not desire that everyone is saved? Of course, these are still secret things, and therefore cannot be preached as Biblical truth. Still, this is what I'm banking on in this matter.
 
God does not desire that all men without exception be saved, otherwise they would. This is precisely the problem with what has come to be known as the "well-meant" offer of the Gospel. You have hit, albeit possibly unwittingly, on the absurdity of such a notion being compatible with God and His sovereignty. Neither of those passages you referenced speaks to God's desire that all men without exception be saved. God's Word never returns to Him void, but always accomplishes its purpose (Is. 55). As God intends, in some cases the Gospel is a savour of death unto death, and to others, of life unto life (2 Cor. 2.14-16). God is equally glorified and satisfied in both ends. In 2 Peter 3.9, if one considers the context, the Apostle is addressing the church, Christians, and Himself, which is why he uses the term us-ward. In 1 Timothy 2.4, the Apostle Paul is talking about all kinds of men, not every man without exception. To interpret those passages in any other way does a great deal of damage of a proper hermeneutic of Scripture, making the Lord a schizophrenic of sorts. Who desires one thing, but has decreed another, and so will forever exist with unmet "desires." This must not be so.

So in the case of Matthew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" why wasn't everlasting fire originally prepared for humans, if He knew from the beginning who would and wouldn't be saved?
 
God does not desire that all men without exception be saved, otherwise they would. This is precisely the problem with what has come to be known as the "well-meant" offer of the Gospel. You have hit, albeit possibly unwittingly, on the absurdity of such a notion being compatible with God and His sovereignty. Neither of those passages you referenced speaks to God's desire that all men without exception be saved. God's Word never returns to Him void, but always accomplishes its purpose (Is. 55). As God intends, in some cases the Gospel is a savour of death unto death, and to others, of life unto life (2 Cor. 2.14-16). God is equally glorified and satisfied in both ends. In 2 Peter 3.9, if one considers the context, the Apostle is addressing the church, Christians, and Himself, which is why he uses the term us-ward. In 1 Timothy 2.4, the Apostle Paul is talking about all kinds of men, not every man without exception. To interpret those passages in any other way does a great deal of damage of a proper hermeneutic of Scripture, making the Lord a schizophrenic of sorts. Who desires one thing, but has decreed another, and so will forever exist with unmet "desires." This must not be so.

So in the case of Matthew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" why wasn't everlasting fire originally prepared for humans, if He knew from the beginning who would and wouldn't be saved?

His "angels" or messengers could be human.
 
God does not desire that all men without exception be saved, otherwise they would. This is precisely the problem with what has come to be known as the "well-meant" offer of the Gospel. You have hit, albeit possibly unwittingly, on the absurdity of such a notion being compatible with God and His sovereignty. Neither of those passages you referenced speaks to God's desire that all men without exception be saved. God's Word never returns to Him void, but always accomplishes its purpose (Is. 55). As God intends, in some cases the Gospel is a savour of death unto death, and to others, of life unto life (2 Cor. 2.14-16). God is equally glorified and satisfied in both ends. In 2 Peter 3.9, if one considers the context, the Apostle is addressing the church, Christians, and Himself, which is why he uses the term us-ward. In 1 Timothy 2.4, the Apostle Paul is talking about all kinds of men, not every man without exception. To interpret those passages in any other way does a great deal of damage of a proper hermeneutic of Scripture, making the Lord a schizophrenic of sorts. Who desires one thing, but has decreed another, and so will forever exist with unmet "desires." This must not be so.

So in the case of Matthew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" why wasn't everlasting fire originally prepared for humans, if He knew from the beginning who would and wouldn't be saved?

Just out of curiosity, do you have a firm understanding of reformed soteriology? Do you agree with predestination? What is you definition of God's Sovereignty?
 
Just out of curiosity, do you have a firm understanding of reformed soteriology? Do you agree with predestination? What is you definition of God's Sovereignty?
My definitions and understandings come from the Bible, convictions of the Holy Spirit, guidance from my church, and discussions with fellow believers. In that order.
 
I hope this doesn't come across as self-advancing, but I literally just published a book this week on the subject of Satan's fall and God's response. It's entitled- Satan's Awful Idea: A Biblical Theology of Satan's Fall and its Implications on the Unfolding Human Drama. Towards the end, the question you have raised is addressed, at least in a tangential manner. You might find it helpful.

I'm basically giving the book away (in PDF form or EPUB). It's on Amazon, but why buy it. I should have a post up later this week at Gentle Reformation | Speaking truth gently with the links. In the meantime, I'd be happy to email it to you.

But to address your question in brief: I believe that Satan wasn't simply trying to take as many with him, as if he were simply a creature ticked off and lashing out, but rather, he was a missionary bent on success. He has been peddling an idea that promises grand things. His idea has been taking shape on earth through the kingdom of darkness. However, God has been actively combating his claims, mocking and refuting him in diverse ways. The central point of refutation came at the cross. Satan was made a public spectacle. His back was broken.

It is true that many have chosen to rebel and side with the kingdom of darkness. However, in the end, when all the books are opened, when all is taken into account, when every sinful claim and lofty presumption is shown to be false- horribly false- every knee is going to bow and confess that Jesus is Lord. They will all confess it... because they will infallibly know they were wrong.

There will be no gloating. Every mouth will be shut.
 
and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev 20:10

That doesn't feel like a winner. I don't think he'll be celebrating how many he brought down, because the he deceived, the greater his judgment.
 
Just out of curiosity, do you have a firm understanding of reformed soteriology? Do you agree with predestination? What is you definition of God's Sovereignty?
My definitions and understandings come from the Bible, convictions of the Holy Spirit, guidance from my church, and discussions with fellow believers. In that order.

So... Where do the Reformed Confessions come in? This forum assumes the Reformed Confessions (with minor differences, such as on the mode of baptism) are the best interpretation of the Bible that has ever been penned by man.
 
Just out of curiosity, do you have a firm understanding of reformed soteriology? Do you agree with predestination? What is you definition of God's Sovereignty?
My definitions and understandings come from the Bible, convictions of the Holy Spirit, guidance from my church, and discussions with fellow believers. In that order.

I was asking because according to your signature you're attending a Reformed church which should mean you adhere to a Calvinistic soteriology. Many of the arguments you brought forth (2 Peter 3:9, 1 Tim 2:4) are arguments used by Arminians to attempt to refute Calvinistic soteriology but the problem is that they do not consider the context. I was just suggesting that if you have a proper understanding of reformed soteriology many of these questions would have been answered.

The question you brought forth is one of the reasons why it's important to have a good understanding of God sovereignty over all of his creation:

WCF Chapter III
Of God's Eternal Decree

I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]

II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions;[4] yet has He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.[5]

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7]

IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.[8]

V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory,[9] out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto;[10] and all to the praise of His glorious grace.[11]

VI. As God has appointed the elect unto glory, so has He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto.[12] Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,[13] are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified,[14] and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation.[15] Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.[16]

VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice.[17]

VIII. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,[18] that men, attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.[19] So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God;[20] and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the Gospel.[21]


God saves men for his own glory, his glory is not dependent on the number of redeemed elects being greater than the number of reprobates. The fact that God chooses to save "any" of us is infinitely gracious. The idea of Satan being victorious (or thinking he is) assumes there's something to be won.
 
Wow. This is the first time I've seen a question asked about the Devil's feelings. It certainly is more fun and interesting than angels on the head of a pin. ;)
 
So... Where do the Reformed Confessions come in? This forum assumes the Reformed Confessions (with minor differences, such as on the mode of baptism) are the best interpretation of the Bible that has ever been penned by man.
The best interpretation in my opinion is Scripture itself. It still trumps man-made confessions when there is any conflict between the two.
 
So... Where do the Reformed Confessions come in? This forum assumes the Reformed Confessions (with minor differences, such as on the mode of baptism) are the best interpretation of the Bible that has ever been penned by man.
The best interpretation in my opinion is Scripture itself. It still trumps man-made confessions when there is any conflict between the two.

Juan,
I think there are presuppositions in your responses that have implications you may not have thought about:

1-When there is a conflict of personal interpretation, which interpretation wins? Yours? Mine? Who decides?
2-"Me and my Bible" is "Solo Scriptura", not "Sola Scriptura". Martin Luther himself would never approve of the former. Certainly God's own Word would not approve of such as it undermines, at least, the church government He has instituted.
3-If you want to precise, all interpretation is in a sense "man-made", including yours, unless you say yours is inerrent and infallible. For the confesional folks, we believe the confessions (in my case, the WCF) are faithful summaries of what the Scripture teaches. No confessional person would say their confession replaces Scripture.

Please consider the implications of your stated position.
 
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In the book of Revelation, Satan is trying to destroy the woman and the child. In this, he and all his numbers are totally defeated.
 
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