What about Beth Moore is objectionable? I don't know much about her personally, but know that she is big amongst some ladies in my church.
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What about Beth Moore is objectionable? I don't know much about her personally, but know that she is big amongst some ladies in my church.
Davidius
Inactive User
She speaks at a big conference for college students each year (in reference to the last part).
wasn't there something about word-faith as well?
LifeInReturn
Puritan Board Freshman
Are warm fuzzies a bad thing when teaching women...I have always been under the impression that God created women to be more emotional and therefore, that is the best way to communicate with them. I have never heard of her seeking to communicate with men. That is a new one to me. I have seen her do lots of women's Bible Studies and conferences. Do you have any evidence as to her being non-reformed?
Davidius
Inactive User
I've often heard the statement about women being created to be more emotional but I've always wondered how true this is. It's never seemed to me to be any more than an assertion. I'd really appreciate it if someone could shed some light on this for me and show me how this is biblical anthropology if it really is.
As far as Beth Moore teaching men goes, she teaches at Passion, a big conference for college students (men and women), each year.
As far as Beth Moore teaching men goes, she teaches at Passion, a big conference for college students (men and women), each year.
Davidius
Inactive User
I'm not offended at all.
Your point is well-taken.But does that mean that women were created to be less logical and more emotional? I know plenty of irrational men. It just seems to me that we should limit blanket statements about human nature to what the bible tells us. Of course, I'm willing to consider the point because I have to say that it seems that way sometimes. But I'd rather not base generalized judgments on the way things seem if I can help it, that's all.
Nor are they marketing to the Proverbs 31 lady!
No Longer A Libertine
Puritan Board Senior
You and I are of similar age and a similar station in life but for the life of me I cannot determine how it is that you do not find the opposite sex emotional more so than we are.
Davidius
Inactive User
You and I are of similar age and a similar station in life but for the life of me I cannot determine how it is that you do not find the opposite sex emotional more so than we are.
lol
See my above reply! I have to agree that sometimes it seems that way but perhaps this is just some result of the Fall. What I'm wondering is if it's a part of Creation. It seems important because it seemed like Joseph was saying that because women are more emotional they should be taught with emotionally-driven material.
No Longer A Libertine
Puritan Board Senior
I've always been told by Reformed ministers that emotionalism is one of the chief reasons women are not permitted an elders or leadership position in the church.lol
See my above reply! I have to agree that sometimes it seems that way but perhaps this is just some result of the Fall. What I'm wondering is if it's a part of Creation. It seems important because it seemed like Joseph was saying that because women are more emotional they should be taught with emotionally-driven material.
Even look at the secular world and see how Margaret Thatcher or Condi Rice or Hillary Clinton have to surrender so much of their femininity to be taken seriously in the man's game. (Not trying to be sexist just observing)
That being said we do talk to women with gentler tones than we do with our male companions when discussing spiritual matters, my experience anyhow.
Davidius
Inactive User
The thing is, emotionalism is not the reason Paul gives. He appeals to the Creation order whenever he talks about gender roles, not psychological disposition.
Again, all I'm asking is whether we should confine generalized statements applying to all women to what the bible says about them.
No Longer A Libertine
Puritan Board Senior
I think creation order was organized with this distinction in mind as well however.
Davidius
Inactive User
What I'm saying is, Paul's argument is that "man was created first and woman second." It doesn't seem like a psychological distinction to me.
Can you show me where it's implied in Genesis that Eve has weaker mental faculties than Adam and is more emotional? No offense, but it's these kind of assertions that give my feminist medieval history professor at UNC ammunition against the Church. Women have suffered all kinds of abuse throughout history because it was assumed that they were less rational and more emotional. If she's going to have the ammunition, I'd at least like to see how the generalization is clearly deduced from scripture.
No Longer A Libertine
Puritan Board Senior
Sounds like she's getting emotional
She is a helper made with wonderful differences than we, the Bible isn't a detailed medical book of human anatomical, chemical and psychological workings but it does tell us that the human condition is a fallen one.The fall causes a rebellion against the ordained order and that is not something your prof is going to take a liking toward without a regenerate heart.
As for being "weaker" that depends on the arena of ordained function. Certainly men are created stronger physical specimans for matters of field labor but child labor is a trial only a woman could handle, we have different roles, the problem with today's society is that we strip women of their femininity in the name of some perverse dicotomy that acts like self-autonomy equals fulfillment.
Women are denied their natural longings or pressed by the world and their flesh to forsake their callings as wives and mothers ahead of careers.
Davidius
Inactive User
Sounds like she's getting emotional
The fall causes a rebellion against the ordained order and that is not something your prof is going to take a liking toward without a regenerate heart.
Yes, she is definitely over-emotional.But really, that doesn't really answer my question. I know that the bible is not an anatomy textbook, but you're talking about a generalized psychological nature that has to apply to every single woman. For that sort of thing I'd want the testimony of scripture. You said in the post before that you thought irrationality and emotionalism are inherent in women due to the creation order but you didn't show why that it is so.
And it doesn't have anything to do with her not liking the fact that men were created to be the head of women. It's fact that women have been mistreated and improperly subjugated in history because of the very ideas you're espousing as pure assertions.
No Longer A Libertine
Puritan Board Senior
That wording is a bit abrassive,"irrationality" can be begotten by over emotionalizing but they are not necessarily partners.
But really, that doesn't really answer my question. I know that the bible is not an anatomy textbook, but you're talking about a generalized psychological nature that has to apply to every single woman. For that sort of thing I'd want the testimony of scripture. You said in the post before that you thought irrationality and emotionalism are inherent in women due to the creation order but you didn't show why that it is so.
And it doesn't have anything to do with her not liking the fact that men were created to be the head of women. It's fact that women have been mistreated and improperly subjugated in history because of the very ideas you're espousing as pure assertions.
Women cry in movies, that isn't wrong in and of itself, making important decisions on the whim of what a deceitful heart feels at a certain moment would be however.
No doubt women have been mistreated by we sinful men but we should rebuke ourselves and ask for forgiveness and pray for the wisdom to lead Godly lives and inspire Biblical submission accordingly.
Davidius
Inactive User
I cry in movies. What's your point?
What does submission have to do with emotionalism and being illogical? I totally agree that women should be submissive. But this has nothing to do with their mental faculties.
Anyway, there's probably no point in deliberating this any longer. We've successfully managed to totally hijack the thread about Beth Moore. Maybe someone will come along and bring it back on track.
turmeric
Megerator
Can we distinguish here? I don't think God made women like this stereotype of "emotionalism" because God made everything good, and irrationalism isn't good. God made woman with the capability to "read" emotional situations more easily than men, I'm quite sure one reason was so they could deal with little, non-verbal creatures who can't give a rational dissertation to explain where it hurts. That being said, women are usually the ones who teach infants to talk, and in fact, they do teach theology to men - when they're kids! Their brains are designed for a very complex and absorbing task - forming little humans. A man's brain simply isn't designed to do this as well. But I don't think that means that woman is meant to be incapable of rational thought, any more than it's fair to say to your child with a skinned knee, "Billy, you're going to have to lie on the sidewalk and cry till Mommy gets home, because I'm a man and can't nurture!" Now that's irrational! 
Andrew P.C.
Puritan Board Junior
It depends. Are you married to her? If not, does this include preaching?
Unfortunetly, the SBC is actually like that in there preaching(meeting the felt needs of the people rather then telling them truth). =/
No Longer A Libertine
Puritan Board Senior
Well your wimpiness is just an anomaly and not the rule of masculinityI cry in movies. What's your point?
What does submission have to do with emotionalism and being illogical? I totally agree that women should be submissive. But this has nothing to do with their mental faculties.
Anyway, there's probably no point in deliberating this any longer. We've successfully managed to totally hijack the thread about Beth Moore. Maybe someone will come along and bring it back on track.
The point being women need an emotional connection that we often do not a woman's intuition can blow my reason away every now and then and make me ponder differently.
We are different, we think differently, we connect differently and it is silly to ignore our differences and how lovely it is when they come together to provide the whole picture, that's what Im saying. But in the state of creation order we make the decisions for better or worse and if we are wise we listen to the woman's input and follow much of it after evaluating it.
LadyFlynt
Inactive User
I will concede that women are *generally more emotional/emotion based than men. This can be a wonderful thing; it can be a woman's greatest weakness as well. Beth Moore's focus is sooooo on the emotionalism that the concrete focus of scripture gets lost. It becomes about us and how our Heavenly Father/Lover (yes, you read that right...I remember us blushing as Beth discussed the Song of Solomon one time in the manner she did) is doing everything for and because of us rather than the scripture and the gospel being about God's Glory. It's 'as though' God created everything for us, instead of us and everything else for His Glory. I'm not at home right now, I only have the books...do not own the videos (generally those are owned by the churches hosting her studies)...therefore I am not able to pull anything as 'evidence' at this moment other than what I remember from doing her studies (I am not home right now).
Andrew P.C.
Puritan Board Junior
Kids aren't men dear.
The sentence should actually read:
"and in fact, they do teach theology to their kids." (My correction)
Andrew P.C.
Puritan Board Junior
Is Beth Moore like Joyce Meyer?
No Longer A Libertine
Puritan Board Senior
She's not THAT bad.
Andrew P.C.
Puritan Board Junior
Davidius
Inactive User
Well your wimpiness is just an anomaly and not the rule of masculinity
Sissy!
Whatever! Darn, I was about to lay a smackdown.
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