Why do women like Pride and Prejudice?

[py3ak]

Matthew Macfadyen doesn't have Colin Firth's puppy eyes and actually seems like a jerk early in the film, and Mrs. Bennet is a real character instead of a caricature of a silly mother (and on that point, Joe Wright may have done more than Austen herself, and I thank him for it). Whether you like the 2005 film as an adaptation or not, it's certainly a better quality movie than the A&E version.

I think what that overlooks, though, is that Austen's world is rather genteel. The A&E version goes a little too far in dehumanizing Mrs. Bennett and some of the minor characters. But when it comes to Mr. Darcy, he's not going to be a lout; he's proud, not cruel. But consider the vitally important characters of Jane, Mr. Collins, Mr. Bingley, Mr. Wickham and Lady Catherine. They really could not have been improved.
Macfadyen and Knightley aren't actually very good actors.

 

[ColdSilverMoon]

I am a fan of anything that has to do with the greatest novelist ever. I even liked Clueless!

Hmmm...fans of Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Dumas, Dickens, Hemingway, Tolkien - just to name a few - would take great issue with you...

 

[Ex Nihilo]

Matthew Macfadyen doesn't have Colin Firth's puppy eyes and actually seems like a jerk early in the film, and Mrs. Bennet is a real character instead of a caricature of a silly mother (and on that point, Joe Wright may have done more than Austen herself, and I thank him for it). Whether you like the 2005 film as an adaptation or not, it's certainly a better quality movie than the A&E version.

I think what that overlooks, though, is that Austen's world is rather genteel. The A&E version goes a little too far in dehumanizing Mrs. Bennett and some of the minor characters. But when it comes to Mr. Darcy, he's not going to be a lout; he's proud, not cruel. But consider the vitally important characters of Jane, Mr. Collins, Mr. Bingley, Mr. Wickham and Lady Catherine. They really could not have been improved.
Macfadyen and Knightley aren't actually very good actors.

I agree on the the other three, but I think Wickham is miscast. He looks far too old for the role, and he has a conniving air about him from the beginning. It's very difficult to understand why all the girls would be attracted to him. This is something of a superficial criticism, but the actors' looks matter more (to me) in a film version than they would on stage; when I feel like watching a film, I possibly over-value the visual, and I would choose actors who look the part over those who are more technically accomplished.

Knightley and Macfadyen may not be that good, but I don't care for Jennifer Ehle, either, and some of her mannerisms and the way she delivers certain lines annoy me far more than any of the missteps Knightley and Macfadyen made. No complaints about Colin Firth -- he's sympathetic early on, but that's not a huge problem.

 

[py3ak]

Well, Wickham is not so handsome as he could be - but part of the point is that Mr. Bennett sees through him from the first and Elizabeth doesn't. Her perspicacity is not as developed as her cynical father's.
I haven't seen Ehle in anything else, so I can't judge her overall, but in P&P I think her looks and serenity and polite put-downs are done very well. The only part I thought she didn't do terribly well was the aftermath of Mr. Darcy's first proposal.

 

[Ex Nihilo]

Well, Wickham is not so handsome as he could be - but part of the point is that Mr. Bennett sees through him from the first and Elizabeth doesn't. Her perspicacity is not as developed as her cynical father's.
I haven't seen Ehle in anything else, so I can't judge her overall, but in P&P I think her looks and serenity and polite put-downs are done very well. The only part I thought she didn't do terribly well was the aftermath of Mr. Darcy's first proposal.

This is entirely subjective, and I certainly can't claim any knowledge of what good acting is, beyond what I like to watch -- but I find her manner of delivering lines throughout the film much too confident and very artificial. I can't quite put my finger on why it comes across this way to me, and my over-familiarity with the lines in the book may have something to do with it. Maybe the (actually more accurate) gentility in the A&E version seems false to me -- though I also object to the pig in the house in the Joe Wright version!

 

[he beholds]

Even better than P & P is Jane Eyre, both by book and movie (the most recent Masterpiece Theater version!).

But P & P is very good, and yes, the Colin Firth one!!! I could never understand how women liked him especially as a heartthrob until I saw that movie.

 

[asc]

well not anything new to add,
but i wanted to give my 2 thumbs up.

you should watch it cheerfully, Perg, and make your wife happy!
i can't think of a more wholesome, funny romance movie.

ps. i had really enjoyed reading the book before seeing the movies,
so i also enjoyed the A&E version because in my opinion it's a much more faithful
representation.

 

[LadyFlynt]

Love the A&E version the best! Sorry, Margaret, but the 40's version of those books are an eyesore when it comes to accurate costuming. Yes, I'm a historical clothing snob. That is probably my favorite part of the movies. The rest is the insightful, and often humorous, spinning of the tale. Austen points out, with ironic circumstances, the flaws in each of us and how we stumble through life for better and for worse.

I've never asked my husband to sit through P&P. I know for a fact he would fall asleep. He has watched Emma, though I could tell that it was neither here nor there with him, he did it willingly and to be with me/please me...there's man-points in that.

 

[Timothy William]

Even better than P & P is Jane Eyre, both by book and movie (the most recent Masterpiece Theater version!).

But P & P is very good, and yes, the Colin Firth one!!! I could never understand how women liked him especially as a heartthrob until I saw that movie.

 

[py3ak]

Well, Wickham is not so handsome as he could be - but part of the point is that Mr. Bennett sees through him from the first and Elizabeth doesn't. Her perspicacity is not as developed as her cynical father's.
I haven't seen Ehle in anything else, so I can't judge her overall, but in P&P I think her looks and serenity and polite put-downs are done very well. The only part I thought she didn't do terribly well was the aftermath of Mr. Darcy's first proposal.

This is entirely subjective, and I certainly can't claim any knowledge of what good acting is, beyond what I like to watch -- but I find her manner of delivering lines throughout the film much too confident and very artificial. I can't quite put my finger on why it comes across this way to me, and my over-familiarity with the lines in the book may have something to do with it. Maybe the (actually more accurate) gentility in the A&E version seems false to me -- though I also object to the pig in the house in the Joe Wright version!

But that's the point - she's quite bold enough. Hence Mr. Darcy takes hope when she won't deny certain things directly to Lady Catherine - he knows she will speak her mind quite plainly.

To those who worry about manliness, let me say two things. One, it isn't manly to worry about enjoying something. Two, if intelligence and manliness are opposed, our definition of manliness needs tweaking.

 

[BJClark]

py3ak;

Well, Wickham is not so handsome as he could be - but part of the point is that Mr. Bennett sees through him from the first and Elizabeth doesn't. Her perspicacity is not as developed as her cynical father's.

This is actually an interesting observation, because that is in part the role of a father to his daughter..one who can see through to a young man's true motives, when she can not.

I believe in part this is also why "non-reformed" and "non-conservative" women also like this movies, they know instinctively that's how 'it should be' even when it is not..

We must also consider how much times have changed since this book was written, and how our own perspective of life and relationships have changed..years ago, women stayed living with their parents until they married..they didn't go away to college and live on their own, they didn't push themselves on men the way many young girls do today, where they hang all over them, the way they showed an interest was different than it is today, and they waited for the man 'take the hint' that they were interested..but as we can see in the movie..many men see that 'lack of pushiness' as a 'lack of interest'..which is also why some folks consider men to be Clueless...

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Why do women like the movie while men do not:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone]Testosterone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Testosterone is a steroid hormone from the androgen group. In mammals, testosterone is primarily secreted in the testes of males and the ovaries of females, although small amounts are also secreted by the adrenal glands. It is the principal male sex hormone and an anabolic steroid.

In men, testosterone plays a key role in health and well-being as well as in osteoporosis. On average, an adult human male body produces about forty to sixty times more testosterone than an adult female body, but females are, from a behavioral perspective (rather than from an anatomical or biological perspective), more sensitive to the hormone.[1] However the overall ranges for male and female are very wide, such that the ranges actually overlap at the low end and high end respectively.

 

[py3ak]

Chemical determinism?

 

[he beholds]

I forgot to say that I like the Keira Knightley version also. I like the BBC one more, probably in large because it is longer, but I would watch either of them over and over.

My husband likes those enough, but again, he would definitely say JANE EYRE. I actually bought the Masterpiece Theater version for him! And, our love for the novel Jane Eyre played a part in our becoming friends! I think it is very, very manly (studly) to recognize and appreciate art and beauty.

I do know that some women are attracted to "Me Tarzan. You Jane." Just not this girl and probably not your wife...show her your romantic side and watch P & P, and then surprise her with [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Jane-Eyre-Masterpiece-Theatre-2006/dp/B000LPQ6DE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1243715290&sr=8-1"]this[/ame]!

 

[Ex Nihilo]

py3ak;

I believe in part this is also why "non-reformed" and "non-conservative" women also like this movies, they know instinctively that's how 'it should be' even when it is not..

Yes, I think that's exactly right!

This is entirely subjective, and I certainly can't claim any knowledge of what good acting is, beyond what I like to watch -- but I find her manner of delivering lines throughout the film much too confident and very artificial. I can't quite put my finger on why it comes across this way to me, and my over-familiarity with the lines in the book may have something to do with it. Maybe the (actually more accurate) gentility in the A&E version seems false to me -- though I also object to the pig in the house in the Joe Wright version!

But that's the point - she's quite bold enough. Hence Mr. Darcy takes hope when she won't deny certain things directly to Lady Catherine - he knows she will speak her mind quite plainly.

To those who worry about manliness, let me say two things. One, it isn't manly to worry about enjoying something. Two, if intelligence and manliness are opposed, our definition of manliness needs tweaking.

Agreed. My word choice was a little off -- I think Ehle's delivery lacks spontaneity.

 

[Southern Presbyterian]

I don't care what anyone says, there are serious man-points to be gained by doing something just because my lovely bride asks me to. Watching this movie, the A & E version, was one of those things and I must say that I enjoyed it immensely. It is both smart and funny. Quality entertainment, if you ask me.

 

[Archlute]

Chemical determinism?

God works through means...

 

[py3ak]

But some of those means are contingent and free.... Of course, wrong ideas are another mean God employs.

 

[Archlute]

But some of those means are contingent and free.... Of course, wrong ideas are another mean God employs.

Stop trying to defend your loss of man points - it is an exercise in futility

 

[smhbbag]

Agreed. My word choice was a little off -- I think Ehle's delivery lacks spontaneity.

That is an excellent point. I had not thought of it that way until you said it, but it's exactly right. This would be one area in which the newer one is better.

*Quickly closes computer window before the wife sees what I've typed*

 

[kvanlaan]

I think what that overlooks, though, is that Austen's world is rather genteel. The A&E version goes a little too far in dehumanizing Mrs. Bennett and some of the minor characters. But when it comes to Mr. Darcy, he's not going to be a lout; he's proud, not cruel. But consider the vitally important characters of Jane, Mr. Collins, Mr. Bingley, Mr. Wickham and Lady Catherine. They really could not have been improved.
Macfadyen and Knightley aren't actually very good actors.

Dude, too far, too far! Deep, emotional assessments of the archetypal chick-flick are to be discussed only in the "Tool Shed" and then only if the life of a loved one depends on it.

Bro, time to turn in your man card. I thought I was bad.

 

[Wannabee]

I liked both modern versions. The A&E is more of a serial that draws you in quite well. The intrigues and imposition of motive can teach us much. The modern movie was quite good too, I thought. The only problem with it is if you have seen the A&E and expected a movie to capture all that a series did. I think it succeeded in capturing much that is central, but of course couldn't catch it all.
Pergy, watch the recent movie and you'll get the gist. It's quite engaging and you might even enjoy it. I'd watch it again. Then, when you have time, sit down with the wifey and enjoy the longer version together. She'll appreciate you for it, especially if you can engage her in some discussion on the personalities and interaction involved.
But then, I still cry at old Coke commercials.

-----Added 5/30/2009 at 06:43:12 EST-----

Just curious - does it take more manliness to avoid chick flicks, or to gain your wife's appreciation in spite of the ribbing you'll receive from those who are too macho to watch them? I'll take the high road... with my wife, thank you.

 

[calgal]

Kevin and Ruben:

I may just be a woman but I would say Persuasion would be the movie that impacts the "man points": No swordplay but a very good chick flick. I watched Persuasion with some married friends a number of years ago. We women were on the edge of our seats laughing, crying and cheering while the male in the room fell asleep!

 

[py3ak]

But some of those means are contingent and free.... Of course, wrong ideas are another mean God employs.

Stop trying to defend your loss of man points - it is an exercise in futility

Real men don't worry about man points. Kevin, that can serve as my answer to you as well. Women are not the only psychological novelists.

Spontaneity looks different when you have developed stock responses and also have rhythmic patterns of speech. That's why Dr. Johnson's conversation was so smooth - the work of smooth and balanced prose had become instinctive. We don't train ourselves to think evenly and respond smoothly, but you can see the same cultivation of stock responses and a certain pattern of speaking in comedians who learn to ad lib - they've developed the habit. Presumably if comedians can do it, almost anyone can. Especially if the stock responses you want to develop to proclaim your manliness consist of grunts.

 

[py3ak]

Kevin and Ruben:

I may just be a woman but I would say Persuasion would be the movie that impacts the "man points": No swordplay but a very good chick flick. I watched Persuasion with some married friends a number of years ago. We women were on the edge of our seats laughing, crying and cheering while the male in the room fell asleep!

I didn't think much of the screen adaptation, but that is Austen's best book.

 

[Ex Nihilo]

Kevin and Ruben:

I may just be a woman but I would say Persuasion would be the movie that impacts the "man points": No swordplay but a very good chick flick. I watched Persuasion with some married friends a number of years ago. We women were on the edge of our seats laughing, crying and cheering while the male in the room fell asleep!

I didn't think much of the screen adaptation, but that is Austen's best book.

I totally agree! I agree more with this conclusion as I get older, too.

 

[calgal]

Kevin and Ruben:

I may just be a woman but I would say Persuasion would be the movie that impacts the "man points": No swordplay but a very good chick flick. I watched Persuasion with some married friends a number of years ago. We women were on the edge of our seats laughing, crying and cheering while the male in the room fell asleep!

I didn't think much of the screen adaptation, but that is Austen's best book.

The screen adaption was done as a chick flick. The problem I had with the 2005 adaption of P&P was that the main characters were country gentry and not yeoman farmers and the film did not seem to recognize the difference. Yes there is a difference in clothing but not that much of a difference in manners.

 

[OPC'n]

I don't want to force myself to sit through this boring drek....does anyone have the cliff notes as to why women love this show so much and love Mr Darcy, whoever that is.

Should I sit through it? Have any of you guys done so?

I like the one BBC put out. They are very clean and proper. Really, these (the set of Jane Austen's books done as movies), nature shows and Luther are the only movies I watch.

 

[LadyFlynt]

Kevin and Ruben:

I may just be a woman but I would say Persuasion would be the movie that impacts the "man points": No swordplay but a very good chick flick. I watched Persuasion with some married friends a number of years ago. We women were on the edge of our seats laughing, crying and cheering while the male in the room fell asleep!

Yes! Persuasion and Emma...definite chick flicks!

 

[Archlute]

But some of those means are contingent and free.... Of course, wrong ideas are another mean God employs.

Stop trying to defend your loss of man points - it is an exercise in futility

Real men don't worry about man points. Kevin, that can serve as my answer to you as well. Women are not the only psychological novelists.

Spontaneity looks different when you have developed stock responses and also have rhythmic patterns of speech. That's why Dr. Johnson's conversation was so smooth - the work of smooth and balanced prose had become instinctive. We don't train ourselves to think evenly and respond smoothly, but you can see the same cultivation of stock responses and a certain pattern of speaking in comedians who learn to ad lib - they've developed the habit. Presumably if comedians can do it, almost anyone can. Especially if the stock responses you want to develop to proclaim your manliness consist of grunts.

Well Ruben, I guess that you have a hard time accepting humor, which would speak less about masculinity or femininity as it would other issues.

However, I will speak seriously with you at this point. The reason that sitting around and reading novels by a 19th century proto-feminist does not score "man points" with either myself or others is because of (what should be) the normative situation regarding most men. They should have family responsibilities and jobs that engage them in the serious issues of life, with relationships regarding which they provide oversight and care, and really should not be spending their time sitting around being bookish, and especially not being bookish with works by someone like Austen. However, until you have children of your own, and/or are engaged in things more serious than moderating an online forum, I will not expect that to be understood.

You all may go ahead and satisfy yourselves by rattling your literary/theological/satirical sabers now, I will be outside teaching my boys how to shoot...