Can you evaluate this statement?

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Exiled_2_God

Puritan Board Freshman
"Work as if everything depends on you, pray as if everything depends on God."

Is is scriptural?
Is it valid?
Does is devalue God's sovereignty?
Is it a great motto to live by?
Something else?

(p.s., I'm not extremely fond of it)

I would appreciate your thoughts...
 
Sounds like a knock-off of Carey's line:

"Expect great things from God; attempt great things for God."
 
"Work as if everything depends on you, pray as if everything depends on God."

Is is scriptural?
Is it valid?
Does is devalue God's sovereignty?
Is it a great motto to live by?
Something else?

(p.s., I'm not extremely fond of it)

I would appreciate your thoughts...

I think it's terrible. If you foster the attitude that everything depends on you then you will become doctrinally warped. I can't imagine humility living side by side with such a view.
 
Sounds like a knock-off of Carey's line:

"Expect great things from God; attempt great things for God."

And your thoughts...?

I agree with Carey's statement completely. I think the version you posted is, if not incorrect, at least confusing.

I've heard Jerry Falwell state it before he died (he stated it a lot), though I think he ripped it off someone else... it came up in a recent conversation with my wife and a friend...
 
I think the idea is ok. Some people have taken the idea that if I pray for a job God will magically bring it to me. It brings the idea of human responsibility to pair along with Divine sovereignty.
 
And your thoughts...?

I agree with Carey's statement completely. I think the version you posted is, if not incorrect, at least confusing.

I've heard Jerry Falwell state it before he died (he stated it a lot), though I think he ripped it off someone else... it came up in a recent conversation with my wife and a friend...

I have to agree with Dr. Parsley. It's terrible, and it also makes it sound like we can't live our beliefs.
 
"Work as if everything depends on you, pray as if everything depends on God."

Is is scriptural?
Is it valid?
Does is devalue God's sovereignty?
Is it a great motto to live by?
Something else?

(p.s., I'm not extremely fond of it)

I would appreciate your thoughts...

I think it's terrible. If you foster the attitude that everything depends on you then you will become doctrinally warped. I can't imagine humility living side by side with such a view.

Yes... I just think that it's part of the "God, you do your part, and I'll do mine." Kinda like with salvation... it's that mindset...
 
"Work as if everything depends on you, pray as if everything depends on God."

Is is scriptural?
Is it valid?
Does is devalue God's sovereignty?
Is it a great motto to live by?
Something else?

(p.s., I'm not extremely fond of it)

I would appreciate your thoughts...

I think it's terrible. If you foster the attitude that everything depends on you then you will become doctrinally warped. I can't imagine humility living side by side with such a view.

Yes... I just think that it's part of the "God, you do your part, and I'll do mine." Kinda like with salvation... it's that mindset...

Worse than that, it presents two alternatives--everything depends on you, everything depends on God--and makes them mutually exclusive.
 
"Work as if everything depends on you, pray as if everything depends on God."

Is is scriptural?
Is it valid?
Does is devalue God's sovereignty?
Is it a great motto to live by?
Something else?

(p.s., I'm not extremely fond of it)

I would appreciate your thoughts...

I’ll respond to this statement, within your questions broken up into the two parts of the quote, 1st
Work as if everything depends on you
and 2nd
pray as if everything depends on God
1st:
Is it scriptural?
I would suggest that it makes an assertion that we should work under our own power. I’d say this is futile. We should desire to be within the will of God and working towards his end. I am not sure what the ‘work’ that’s being addressed is. However, I look to Ephesians 1:19, and find “..what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might” it is His, Gods power that works, and this is in the context of Paul discussing his praying for the saints at Ephesus after having discussed that Christ works all things to the counsel of His will, Eph 1:11. This said, we are of course to work, we have a role in our sanctification, Phil 2:12, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation in fear in trembling” but what’s the qualification given… Phil 2:13, “for it is God who works in you, both to will and do for his good pleasure.” So, I’d say the statement is misleading, but not necessarily wrong. Were called to work, and should work diligently, but should not rely on our own strength, our strength is nothing (Job 38 AND 39, then ready Job 40:3 … hummm).

Is it valid?
I think I’m pressed to say standing alone outside of any context it could go either way. I don’t think who ever said it is necessarily wrong, I believe you could say this and have a high view of sovereignty, however, I believe someone could easily interpret it to say that the power to do this work should come from us. So, I'd say use it carefully if at all, and qualify it.

Does is devalue God's sovereignty?
It could, again depends upon the context it's delivered in we should not let the pendulum shouldn’t swing so far in the direction of fatalism that we don’t feel motivated to 'work' and we also shouldn’t rely on our selves.

Is it a great motto to live by?
No. I think we should live by the Word of God, not clever sayings, John 6:35.

2nd:
pray as if everything depends on God
Is is scriptural?
Sure, everything DOES depend on God (Heb 1:2/3 “through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power”) (Col 1:17 “And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together”)

Is it valid?
The statement “as if” throws me, it qualifies everything’s dependence on God, I think it attempts to encourage prayer that RECOGNIZES Gods sovereignty, but I’d probably word it differently or wrap it in a complete context.

Does is devalue God's sovereignty?
Depending upon how it’s received by the hearer it could.

Is it a great motto to live by?
I echo my answer to this question above.
 
I think it's terrible. If you foster the attitude that everything depends on you then you will become doctrinally warped. I can't imagine humility living side by side with such a view.

Yes... I just think that it's part of the "God, you do your part, and I'll do mine." Kinda like with salvation... it's that mindset...

Worse than that, it presents two alternatives--everything depends on you, everything depends on God--and makes them mutually exclusive.

yeah,,, "as if" and "as if"... almost like there is an uncertainty. Work just in case your prayer isn't answered... but pray just in case God has something better. Good point.

-----Added 7/23/2009 at 03:23:21 EST-----

"Work as if everything depends on you, pray as if everything depends on God."

Is is scriptural?
Is it valid?
Does is devalue God's sovereignty?
Is it a great motto to live by?
Something else?

(p.s., I'm not extremely fond of it)

I would appreciate your thoughts...

I’ll respond to this statement, within your questions broken up into the two parts of the quote, 1st
Work as if everything depends on you
and 2nd
pray as if everything depends on God
1st:
Is it scriptural?
I would suggest that it makes an assertion that we should work under our own power. I’d say this is futile. We should desire to be within the will of God and working towards his end. I am not sure what the ‘work’ that’s being addressed is. However, I look to Ephesians 1:19, and find “..what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might” it is His, Gods power that works, and this is in the context of Paul discussing his praying for the saints at Ephesus after having discussed that Christ works all things to the counsel of His will, Eph 1:11. This said, we are of course to work, we have a role in our sanctification, Phil 2:12, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation in fear in trembling” but what’s the qualification given… Phil 2:13, “for it is God who works in you, both to will and do for his good pleasure.” So, I’d say the statement is misleading, but not necessarily wrong. Were called to work, and should work diligently, but should not rely on our own strength, our strength is nothing (Job 38 AND 39, then ready Job 40:3 … hummm).

It is definitely making that assertion (to work under our own power). As I just stated above, the assumption seems to be that one should work hard just in case God won't answer his prayer, but one should pray just in case God has something better than what he can work for. Very humanistic. You provided some great verses...

Is it valid?
I think I’m pressed to say standing alone outside of any context it could go either way. I don’t think who ever said it is necessarily wrong, I believe you could say this and have a high view of sovereignty, however, I believe someone could easily interpret it to say that the power to do this work should come from us. So, I'd say use it carefully if at all, and qualify it.

Does is devalue God's sovereignty?
It could, again depends upon the context it's delivered in we should not let the pendulum shouldn’t swing so far in the direction of fatalism that we don’t feel motivated to 'work' and we also shouldn’t rely on our selves.

Is it a great motto to live by?
No. I think we should live by the Word of God, not clever sayings, John 6:35.

The context of the comment, that I have seen anyway, is provided by workaholics. There have been many who repeat the comment from its assumed original source. Almost as if it a justification to work sooooo hard, as opposed to setting boundaries. I've only heard it stated from the "type-A." Obviously, nothing is wrong with hard work, but I'm talking extremes. To many, hard work means working 80+ hours for a business. To me, it is working your job to supply for your family, but also working for your first ministry - your family - then your other ministries.

2nd:
pray as if everything depends on God
Is is scriptural?
Sure, everything DOES depend on God (Heb 1:2/3 “through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power”) (Col 1:17 “And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together”)

Is it valid?
The statement “as if” throws me, it qualifies everything’s dependence on God, I think it attempts to encourage prayer that RECOGNIZES Gods sovereignty, but I’d probably word it differently or wrap it in a complete context.

Does is devalue God's sovereignty?
Depending upon how it’s received by the hearer it could.

Is it a great motto to live by?
I echo my answer to this question above.

This statement sounds a lot better when it is isolated by itself. But put into the context of the full slogan, I believe it is reprehensible. Now, someone may have said it at one point of time to offer some catchy phrase in the context of working hard and not being lazy, but I've heard it in the extreme context of "work your people to the bones" oh, and pray too.
 
"Work as if everything depends on you, pray as if everything depends on God."

Is is scriptural?
Is it valid?
Does is devalue God's sovereignty?
Is it a great motto to live by?
Something else?

(p.s., I'm not extremely fond of it)

I would appreciate your thoughts...

The AS IF in " pray as if everything depends on God " is what I have a problem with. Replace the AS IF with a comma.
 
The AS IF in " pray as if everything depends on God " is what I have a problem with. Replace the AS IF with a comma.

Definitely. Yet to do that would cancel the first part out - as it should. The first part, "work as if everything depends on you" is tantamount to saying, "train hard for the marathon until you can fly." For we know that everything doesn't depend on "you," and we know that someone can't "fly" in and of themselves. Naturally, the phrase as a whole is man centered, peppered with enough God to make it "cool" and "christiany."
 
So essentially, it is a "cute" little phrase that doesn't make much objective sense...

Pretty much. Any analysis causes it to break down and probably go far beyond the original author's intentions, so I wouldn't bother. Just stick with William Carey. :cool:
 
It see it no more terrible than Paul's command to work out your own salvation in fear and trembling (for it's God working in us to will and to do)....

We should NEVER diminish human responsibility.
 
Perhaps it depends upon what presuppositions we bring to the table. I sort of like it because of the good things John W. says. It strikes me as along the lines of Oliver Cromwell's "put your trust in God; but mind to keep your powder dry." Claiming that we trust God and failing to do all things as unto Him is presumption. We're all guilty of it. But this saying seems to, in this light, focus on not taking God for granted while recognizing His sovereignty and embracing it through prayer - which should engender trust in Him for all things, including our strength to work.

Obviously there is room for abuse though, as has been stated.
 
it makes me think of "God helps those who help themselves."

I'd rather "Work as if everything depends on God, pray as if everything depends on God."
than "Work as if everything depends on you, pray as if everything depends on God."

Absolutely nothing depends on me. This does not contradict the fact that I should still work hard. In fact, it gives me a hope for working hard--it shall not be in vain.
 
pray as if everything depends on God

That's the part that bothers me. It certainly doesn't appear to be in keeping with Chapter II Paragraph 1 of the Westminster Confession.
 
"Work as if everything depends on you, pray as if everything depends on God."

Is is scriptural?
Is it valid?
Does is devalue God's sovereignty?
Is it a great motto to live by?
Something else?

(p.s., I'm not extremely fond of it)

I would appreciate your thoughts...

I will admit that I haven't read this thread. So, here is what I have to say. I prefer Stonewall Jackson's saying: "Duty is ours; consequences are God's." We are not to be fatalists, as Reformed believers. Remember Paul said to the men, "None of you on this ship will die." And then when the "professional sailors" were trying to abandon ship, he said, "Stop those men or we'll all perish!" Now, God had told Paul that no one would die, but Paul knew he didn't know how to keep that ship afloat. He absolutely was resting in the sovereignty of God, knowing that God ordains the ends and the means. So, I prefer Jackson to this quote.

-----Added 7/26/2009 at 09:25:27 EST-----

After reading a couple of posts on the thread...I'll say that Jessi hit the nail on the head.
 
I prefer this statement:

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20

It is our union with Christ and the fact that He has put Sin, as power, to death on the Cross that I can live to His glory - nay, must.
 
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