A question about Education. Private vs HS

[cih1355]

I think the quality of education at Christian schools can vary. Some Christian schools use a good curriculum and some don’t. I would find out what kind of curriculum your local Christian school is using. There is a Christian curriculum called “Accelerated Christian Education” and this curriculum is far different than the one that a Classical Christian school would use.

I went to a Christian school from the 4th grade to the 6th grade and then I went to a different Christian school from the 7th grade until I graduated. At the second Christian school that I attended, the students would sit in cubicles and teach themselves various subjects while the adults would supervise them. If the students needed help, the adult supervisors could help them. Most of the exams I took were multiple-choice or fill-in-the-blank exams so I did not get to practice my writing that often. Moreover, I didn’t get write very many essays when I went to school there. The school didn’t have any laboratory equipment for the science courses so I had to do the science experiments at home with the lab kits that my parents bought.

 

[py3ak]

That is the part that truly amazes me. My son tested college level and high school level at everything in 4th grade. I know it had nothing to do with my amazing teaching skills. By the world's standards I would not be considered competent. I only had a high school diploma and I think that was only because they wanted me out of the school. It sure did shut the family up when I presented those results. No one, not even my unbelieving family questions me anymore about my capability. It really is an act of the Lord. Kevin, your wife is incredible and I have a lot of respect and admiration for her. By the way, I love you signature. She must truly be an angelic woman to homeschool tne kids.

I think the discipline that good home school parents teach their kids is a large part of this. If you've been trained to sit still and apply yourself, you're going to do better on tests. I don't mean that to imply that you're not competent, of course, just pointing out one of the ways that lesser expertise is compensated for and often overcome in a good HS model vs. professional schools.

 

[nasa30]

If you've been trained to sit still and apply yourself, you're going to do better on tests.

While I agree with this statement which applies to public school, HS or Private School children alike, I do not think it plays a big part in the difference in test scores. We have squirmy HS kids as well. If I were to say a big factor in the test scores it would be the individual attention with pace and learning styles.

Edit: All this talk of scores is really the bonus and not a reason to HS. I just don't like making the test score the focus so I wanted to add this note.

 

[kvanlaan]

No one, not even my unbelieving family questions me anymore about my capability. It really is an act of the Lord. Kevin, your wife is incredible and I have a lot of respect and admiration for her. By the way, I love you signature. She must truly be an angelic woman to homeschool tne kids.

Thank you! She is indeed an angel and any homeschool results really are an act of the Lord. (I say this because I am certain that only the Holy Ghost could possibly give a woman as much patience and educational fortitude as my wife has!)

I think we're all very comfortable in making disparaging remarks about PS in general, but no one is going to cast the first stone when a parent has agonized over such a decision as much as you have, Jessica.

Kevin please don't go making it a we all statement. I just want to make it very clear that not all families are able to homeschool their kids for a variety of reasons. And that whatever choice a family makes is between them and God.

Then let me clarify: I think that those of us who homeschool/send kids to Christian school (because of our feelings about PS) are able to make disparaging remarks (based on results, anecdotes of friends, statistics, etc., not just mean-spirited off-the-cuff comments) about PS without any qualms (I stand by earlier comments that I made in this thread). But I won't cast a stone at those parents who say that there is no other option for them when all other options have been explored (as is the case here). That being said, if someone goes on about the awesomeness of PS, I will take great issue with that, but I can't fault Jessica for her actions.

That is the expanded version of my earlier comment.

 

[kvanlaan]

That is the part that truly amazes me. My son tested college level and high school level at everything in 4th grade. I know it had nothing to do with my amazing teaching skills. By the world's standards I would not be considered competent. I only had a high school diploma and I think that was only because they wanted me out of the school. It sure did shut the family up when I presented those results. No one, not even my unbelieving family questions me anymore about my capability.

Mindy, one other thing (I'm not done bragging yet!): We've taken some flak from some family members for homeschooling, one of whom is a CS teacher. The same daughter who tested so high in Language Arts wrote a piece on why she loved adoption for our church newsletter a month or two ago - it was passed up the line and will soon be printed in Christian Renewal, as I understand it! (Beaming with pride right now - she's now 12 and it is very exciting for her.) But the point is that this family member called the other day and said that she really enjoyed the article and said that it spoke very highly of my wife's teaching abilities. I was gobsmacked and thankful that this was being recognized. While I know it shouldn't make a big difference, it was a huge encouragement to my wife, because the source of the compliment has always been rather down on homeschooling.

One other quick comment: I know that on this forum, those HSs among us tend to be very outspoken/opinionated/have strong feelings on the matter. This comes from years of being generally treated as weird/out of step/unwise as how we handled our children's education. (For instance, the idea that once we were back from China, we would 'of course' be putting our children in CS; it was unthinkable that we would keep HS when we had the option of a 'real' school.) These years of pummelling have left us with a general feeling of 'we must succeed or we will be dismissed as nutcases' and gives your average HS family a real fire in the belly about HS.

 

[alb1]

Jessica

My wife has taught in public elementary schools for around 15 years now. She has always had some other Christians as co-workers and this covers 2 states and 6 different schools. She brings out the best in low end students. There are some teachers out there in the public system that know that there is more to educating a child than just high standardized test scores. My daughter, who is now in college, attended public schools. She spent her whole summer between her college sophmore and junior years as a missionary intern in another country. Bring your kids up in the training and instruction of the Lord the best way that you can. God works through people in various places, that come from all kinds of educational backgrounds, to bring glory unto himself.

 

[Jon Peters]

My wife homeschooled our three older kids and had to take care of the baby (now 2) for the last couple of years. We recently put our kids in public school. We understand where you are coming from. I'm comfortable with our decision but we take things year to year. At some point I suspect we will HS again, but not right now.

Hang in there.

Edit: This is a response to Jessica's post #81. Her quote didn't show up.

 

[py3ak]

While I agree with this statement which applies to public school, HS or Private School children alike, I do not think it plays a big part in the difference in test scores. We have squirmy HS kids as well. If I were to say a big factor in the test scores it would be the individual attention with pace and learning styles.

This is a remarkably literal reading of my comment. Naturally, neither squirming nor sitting still will impact your test scores in the same way that putting down the wrong answers on the test will. But the environment of testing involves far more than recall and understanding: it involves pressure of a particular kind, and undisciplined children who haven't learned to control themselves so as to be able to apply themselves to a given task in unpropitious circumstances will not do as well as those who can remain calm, skip hard questions to come back to later, figure things out when the clock is ticking, and read the frustrating question again without giving up.

 

[nasa30]

While I agree with this statement which applies to public school, HS or Private School children alike, I do not think it plays a big part in the difference in test scores. We have squirmy HS kids as well. If I were to say a big factor in the test scores it would be the individual attention with pace and learning styles.

This is a remarkably literal reading of my comment. Naturally, neither squirming nor sitting still will impact your test scores in the same way that putting down the wrong answers on the test will. But the environment of testing involves far more than recall and understanding: it involves pressure of a particular kind, and undisciplined children who haven't learned to control themselves so as to be able to apply themselves to a given task in unpropitious circumstances will not do as well as those who can remain calm, skip hard questions to come back to later, figure things out when the clock is ticking, and read the frustrating question again without giving up.

Yes, well when I said squirmy, I did not mean that in the literal sense either but rather squirmy attention spans on par to how I thought you meant it. My comment was that the actual knowledge intake from HS was retained better (making test taking easier) due to the attention given to learning styles and the pace of learning rather then just good test taking skills as you have mentioned.

I think we just talked past each other on the description of what we were saying.

 

[Mindaboo]

Mindy, one other thing (I'm not done bragging yet!): We've taken some flak from some family members for homeschooling, one of whom is a CS teacher. The same daughter who tested so high in Language Arts wrote a piece on why she loved adoption for our church newsletter a month or two ago - it was passed up the line and will soon be printed in Christian Renewal, as I understand it! (Beaming with pride right now - she's now 12 and it is very exciting for her.) But the point is that this family member called the other day and said that she really enjoyed the article and said that it spoke very highly of my wife's teaching abilities. I was gobsmacked and thankful that this was being recognized. While I know it shouldn't make a big difference, it was a huge encouragement to my wife, because the source of the compliment has always been rather down on homeschooling.

That is very cool!! Please tell her congratulations! I would love to read her article if you can post it or send it email, snail mail or whatever.

I have an aunt and uncle who have grilled the kids when they came to visit, because they were opposed to my homeschooling. They were looking for reasons to tell me why I shouldn't. They still do on some level. My uncle picked up my son's math books and said, "This isn't math." Oh well. They have really changed though. They have seen the test scores and see that my kids are different and they have come to appreciate the fact that I put so much into my kids. It is a great testimony.

I do think homeschooling is a personal choice and that each parent is obligated to search out the best schooling option for their kids. This is my 12th year homeschooling and I just can't imagine not doing it. I do enjoy what we do and I am learning a lot along with the kids. Some days are very hard, but the kids grow so fast and it will be gone before I know it. I did think it would be easier than it is.

 

[calgal]

No one, not even my unbelieving family questions me anymore about my capability. It really is an act of the Lord. Kevin, your wife is incredible and I have a lot of respect and admiration for her. By the way, I love you signature. She must truly be an angelic woman to homeschool tne kids.

Thank you! She is indeed an angel and any homeschool results really are an act of the Lord. (I say this because I am certain that only the Holy Ghost could possibly give a woman as much patience and educational fortitude as my wife has!)

I think we're all very comfortable in making disparaging remarks about PS in general, but no one is going to cast the first stone when a parent has agonized over such a decision as much as you have, Jessica.

Kevin please don't go making it a we all statement. I just want to make it very clear that not all families are able to homeschool their kids for a variety of reasons. And that whatever choice a family makes is between them and God.

Then let me clarify: I think that those of us who homeschool/send kids to Christian school (because of our feelings about PS) are able to make disparaging remarks (based on results, anecdotes of friends, statistics, etc., not just mean-spirited off-the-cuff comments) about PS without any qualms (I stand by earlier comments that I made in this thread). But I won't cast a stone at those parents who say that there is no other option for them when all other options have been explored (as is the case here). That being said, if someone goes on about the awesomeness of PS, I will take great issue with that, but I can't fault Jessica for her actions.

That is the expanded version of my earlier comment.

Kevin that makes sense then. I also understand the reason why you HS families fiercely defend your choice now and I appreciate the explanation.

 

[Montanablue]

Kevin, I certainly appreciate that point of view -- godliness is more important than academics (though my own point re: eduation itself is that in general scholarly people throughout history like Augustine and C. S. Lewis etc. were already learning in 'grammar' school far more than their parents could have taught them: which was not a negligible aspect of their being able to go on so brilliantly from there). However -- I find this very hard to put into words -- having been homeschooled myself, I cannot think of it as a promised land. Almost universally I have seen that where the parents desired to be 'the biggest influence in their childrens' lives' they got their wish -- and their children escaped none of the sinfulness of unideal situations, because their parents were also sinners. The parents' faults have borne so heavily (lack of discipline, unselfishness, uncharity, anger, even in cases sexual perversion), magnified by the intensity of insulation, that the lives of homeschooled children I grew up with are by a large, if not a shambles -- very deeply scarred by sin. The teenagers turned to alcohol, drugs, sex, etc., as regularly as those I grew up with who were put in Christian schools, and more regularly than those whose parents put them in a public school. Please do not mistake me for saying that my experience is the norm. But having had it, I cannot believe that homeschooling makes it possible to keep one's children from damaging influences. I am a damaging influence -- so are you, dear reader, whoever you are. I am terrified at the thought of being the biggest influence in my childrens' lives. May God give me grace not to default in any area of responsibility, but may He send many men and women to override my failings being merely repeated with a more vicious tendency in them.

In my experience, having a good relationship with one's parents, esp. through teenage years, was far more important than how a child was educated. And in my experience, homeschooling did not generally promote such a relationship. Again, this has only been one person's experience -- and it was my experience growing up: my friends who homeschool give me a much more positive appreciation for it all. But I hope it explains my lack of idealistic fervour -- though I am not antagonistic (hopefully obviously, as I've done this myself and would hope to do it again), and honor very much the sacrifices involved.

[edit: I am hesitant about the language of *aiming* to cultivate missionaries by education rather than some other calling etc -- surely it is God who calls and cultivates his missionaries? --If I've misunderstood, could you clarify that? thanks ]

Heidi, I also saw this in the lives of many of my friends. To a certain extent, it was an issue we had in my family. I think it can be easy for us to forget that parents are not necessarily a perfect influence - or even a good influence. I don't think this is necessarily a reason NOT to homeschool - especially if you're aware of the tendency. But I think we certainly ought to be aware of this danger. Homeschooling is not a cure all and it worries me when people treat it as such.

Edit: Jessica, I just wanted to say that I'll be praying for you and your family. I know you've had a stressful past few months. I really respect you for trying to make the best educational decision for your family, even if its not the "popular" one. If you pray and seek God's will for your family, I do believe he will be faithful to you. And I know many many delightful individuals, very strong in their faith and very well educated who went to public schools. Its not a death sentence by any means!

 

[Reepicheep]

I'm sure there's something more nauseating than a debate about private Christian School vs Home Schooling...I'm just not sure what it is.

Suffice to say there are multiple ways Deut. 6 can be fulfilled by Christian parents and the wider body of Christ (the Church) working in healthy relationship to one another to carry out the discipleship of covenant children. To practice "Christian Ed Snobbery" from any angle is so lame. Newsflash: both approaches can be super effective and super deficient. Discipleship isn't like programming a computer, it's tough, often inexact stuff differing child to child.

I can give you anecdotal "evidence" of all sorts of things that can make one look superior to the other. In the end, are our children learning to view the world through the lenses of King Jesus and His sovereign rule over all things? Both can and do work well to encourage such a worldview. It's not cut and dry. One is not more biblical than the other. I praise God for the options.

 

[nasa30]

I'm sure there's something more nauseating than a debate about private Christian School vs Home Schooling...I'm just not sure what it is.

The great thing about the PB is there are a whole host of other threads that should suit your stomach better. No need to give yourself indigestion by jumping in page 3 and posting in this one.

 

[Reepicheep]

I'm sure there's something more nauseating than a debate about private Christian School vs Home Schooling...I'm just not sure what it is.

The great thing about the PB is there are a whole host of other threads that should suit your stomach better. No need to give yourself indigestion by jumping in page 3 and posting in this one.

Thanks for the advice

I didn't "jump in" on page 3. I've been reading since the beginning. In fact, I was the 19th to comment.

I don't mean to say the debate isn't worthy, it's the attending snobbery that often comes out in the debate when one perspective claims some kind of superiority over the other.

Another great thing about PB is there is room for all of us to weigh in without having others tell us to get lost, right? There certainly is no shortage of opinions manifested here, so I didn't think adding another was somehow out of place.

I'll drop off at this point.

 

[py3ak]

It's an amazing thing how a thread can recover from posts of occasionally unpleasant tone as long as everyone ignores it and tries not to respond in kind.