Christian Platonism

[A.Joseph]

I always appreciated Dr. Phillip Cary. But does he overstate his case that Augustine was a Christian Platonist and that he had kind of a low view of the sacraments. He seems to imply that Augustine overlooked Jesus to some extent as the 'outward' source of 'internal' life.... because Plato did not have much use for external things.
Please watch and provide feedback if so inclined...

 

[RamistThomist]

There are two different claims here: Augustine's Platonism and his view of the sacraments.

No one is a Platonist in the sense of what Plato actually believed. However, Augustine does use the language of participation and seeing Platonic Forms as ideas in the Divine Mind. That is why scholars call him a "Christian Platonist."

Platonism shouldn't have anything to do with the sacraments, as the Eastern Orthodox church is largely Platonic yet holds a high view of the sacraments. Augustine's language, rather, is ambiguous on the sacraments.

 

[Solparvus]

There are two different claims here: Augustine's Platonism and his view of the sacraments.

No one is a Platonist in the sense of what Plato actually believed. However, Augustine does use the language of participation and seeing Platonic Forms as ideas in the Divine Mind. That is why scholars call him a "Christian Platonist."

Platonism shouldn't have anything to do with the sacraments, as the Eastern Orthodox church is largely Platonic yet holds a high view of the sacraments. Augustine's language, rather, is ambiguous on the sacraments.

I remember Robert Godfrey said in a lecture that the two biggest headaches for Roman Catholics is:

- How clear Augustine was on predestination
- How ambiguous Augustine was on the sacraments

They would prefer the vice versa.

 

[J.L. Allen]

I always appreciated Dr. Phillip Cary. But does he overstate his case that Augustine was a Christian Platonist and that he had kind of a low view of the sacraments. He seems to imply that Augustine overlooked Jesus to some extent as the 'outward' source of 'internal' life.... because Plato did not have much use for external things.
Please watch and provide feedback if so inclined...

Dr. Jonathan Armstrong was my church history professor at Moody! He was an incredibly kind man. Unitas Fidei is a great program. I've watched many of these videos.

I'll have to watch the video so I can actually contribute something worthwhile.

 

[RobertPGH1981]

the Eastern Orthodox church is largely Platonic yet holds a high view of the sacraments.

I believe both Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are actually Aristotelian

 

[RamistThomist]

I remember Robert Godfrey said in a lecture that the two biggest headaches for Roman Catholics is:

- How clear Augustine was on predestination
- How ambiguous Augustine was on the sacraments

They would prefer the vice versa.

Godfrey was quoting Warfield. Augustine's views on predestination weren't near as hard core as Thomas or Banez. They are really just an embarrassment for RCCs reacting against Protestants.

 

[RamistThomist]

I believe both Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are actually Aristotelian

Rome is. EOs specifically do not define it in Aristotelian terms. They just punt it and say "mystery." EO's view of theosis is closer to Platonism than it is to Aristotle. And earlier Roman thinkers like Bonaventure wouldn't have been Aristotelian (though he would have been in the same orbit as Aquinas on the Eucharist).