"Conversion" to Reformed?

[Scott1]

I think Dudley's conversion is certainly a good example of coming out darkness into light through the Spirit's regenerating work. But for a sincere Arminian, we are assuming (judgment of charity) that he is in Christ but needs further instruction.
We might say he needs more of God's Word rightly taught. Developing that discipline is part of sanctification.


If we say that the Holy Spirit's work is necessary for him to see the truth of the Reformed faith, then it is not simply a matter of doing exegesis with him and demonstrating the truth intellectually, but praying for God to open his eyes, just as we would in evangelism.

A believer is already indwelt by the Holy Spirit. An unbeliever (in the case of evangelism) is not.

So, it's not quite the same thing- the Holy Spirit illuminating the understanding of a believer versus regenerating a non believer.

The unbeliever is passive in getting himself saved. He has no part in it because only God can do the miracle that is required for that.

But learning the Word of God, studying it rightly, desiring it rightly, seeking biblical accountability for it, is more of the process of sanctification.

At the same time, they may perceive areas in our faith that are weak, and for which we need prayer to see our folly.

If all of this is true, and intellectual matters are inextricably moral issues which require the Spirit's sovereign activity,
Not sure what you mean by this.


then it multiplies and complicates (in my mind) God's election, because not only does God need to choose those he wants to save, but those he wants to reveal certain truths (and there are many truths to be revealed). It seems simpler to say that the truths are graspable if one's cognitive faculties are functioning properly, but I fear that is beginning to sound Arminian.


God is ultimately in control of everything in His universe. He created it. Nothing limits Him, it is not even possible for something He created (including a man's intellect) to limit to God.

When He does the miracle of regeneration (after election in eternity past), sanctification begins- spirit dependent effort of a will that is now free to please good. Really.

This includes seeking Him out through His Word.

Here's an on-line study to go through this:
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/what_is_reformed_theology/total-depravity-part-1/

(start at Dr. Sproul lesson 7 and go through lesson 12 on the "five points).

 

[KevinInReno]

As touched on by many, I see it as a combination of the Lord blessing a reformed believer abundantly and sanctification at work. But nothing which warrants actual conversion.

I'm reminded of: 38“Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

39“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

Just because other churches don't have as full of an understanding - doesn't mean they members outside the body and need to be converted from them.

 

[Dennis1963]

Does one need special grace to move from an Arminian to a Reformed worldview? or, is it merely an intellectual jump that any Christian can make if they simply put in the effort?

I believe if people hear a good convincing argument they may come over to the Reformed faith, however, in this case, that's why some leave and can say they once were a Calvinist, etc...etc...

But the real thing? I believe God is the only true cause. Jesus writes these truths to our hearts. So I believe it is by special grace. It's only then that we don't choke on the meat. We may find it a bit hard to swallow at first, but we know in the inner man it is truth.



---------- Post added at 11:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------

so would you view it as a matter of hermeneutics when learned and godly men simply do not see Scripture the same way as Calvinists?

I've often thought about this.
The only reason anyone see and believes those doctrines of grace is by God grace. He owes us nothing, and all is done according to His timing and will.

I think along these lines, that is exactly where the person is meant to be in their understanding. In the mystery of divine providence there is a purpose, all things are working together perfectly according to plan. One day, I believe, the matter of hermeneutics wont matter, we will all know.

Even us by God's grace who understand things as Calvinists will be humbled by our weaknesses.

---------- Post added at 11:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 PM ----------

Anything good that we are, we are by the grace of God. I would say this includes being reformed or holding to any sound doctrine. For example, I would never think or say, "Man, I'm so glad I am intellectually superior to those Arminians so that I could become reformed" or "Whew, it's a good thing I have such a proper hermeneutic and solid understanding of the scriptures". No, instead we cry out to God, "thank you God for revealing these truths to me!"

Now if you're asking how we might bring an Arminian brother into the proper (reformed) understanding of scripture, then yes, I think hermeneutics is the place to start. But still, it's only going to be by the grace of God that their eyes are opened, although as others have said, I don't know that I'd label it a "special" grace.

And just imagine if we didn't see through a glass dimly.

 

[JoannaV]

When we witness to a non-believer, we do not know if it will find good soil. When we witness to a believer, we know that they have the Spirit who testifies to the truth of what we say.

 

[Scott1]

While it is in one sense "special" to begin to understand profound truths, such as the doctrines of grace, it is not really right to say a "special" work of the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit, as our Lord said, would lead us into all truth.

This is true broadly, and thank God for it.

 

[Dennis1963]

When we witness to a non-believer, we do not know if it will find good soil. When we witness to a believer, we know that they have the Spirit who testifies to the truth of what we say.

But wouldn't that mean Arminians are not believers?

 

[JoannaV]

When we witness to a non-believer, we do not know if it will find good soil. When we witness to a believer, we know that they have the Spirit who testifies to the truth of what we say.

But wouldn't that mean Arminians are not believers?

No.

 

[Dennis1963]

When we witness to a non-believer, we do not know if it will find good soil. When we witness to a believer, we know that they have the Spirit who testifies to the truth of what we say.

But wouldn't that mean Arminians are not believers?

No.

Would you say then, that it is a gradual process, in God's timing? I can agree with this, since I believe there are many Arminians who are believers.

 

[Scott1]

Let me also add how powerful it is to come to understand covenant theology. The doctrines of grace (five points) came first for me, and seemingly for many. I can say also how powerful the truths of covenant are becoming- they are beautiful and elevate family, covenant community, and apportion both responsibility and build faith.

These understanding comes through the ordinary means of grace, including those chosen to carefully teach God's Word.

 

[JoannaV]

When we witness to a non-believer, we do not know if it will find good soil. When we witness to a believer, we know that they have the Spirit who testifies to the truth of what we say.

But wouldn't that mean Arminians are not believers?

No.

Would you say then, that it is a gradual process, in God's timing? I can agree with this, since I believe there are many Arminians who are believers.

Yes.
I suppose my original comment was in reference to how we feel when we witness to others. We always know that it is God who works and His Will will always be done. When talking with an unbeliever we do not know if they are one of the elect or not, whereas when talking to a believer we do know that the Holy Spirit is working in them. So I guess that's special grace vs ordinary :-/