Is Anybody Into Woodworking?
- Thread starter wsw201
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ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
I know you're going to click on here expecting an answer..sorry...I just want to say I am intrested in the answer to this as well. I actually have space to do this now!
JohnV
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Wayne:
I am a cabinetmaker by trade. The one I like the best is Delta's Unisaw (with the Unifence system built right on it.) If you take care of your equipmment, I find this the best that I've used. It's actually a Variety Saw, and that's how I use it too. I've made baseboard trim with it, as well as just cut panels.
The thing to look for is top quality bearings on the drive. You also need adequate power, so that the blade speed is able to keep up with whatever you're cutting. I would say a minimum of 1 hp., 2 hp if you can get it without spending too much,. A Unisaw around here is at least $3000.
As far as blade is concerned, don't fall too quickly for the Triple Chip blades when a good ATB will do a better job. You'll find that an ATB blade (alternate tooth bevel) can be more versatile, and handle particle Board every bit as well as a Triple Chip.
I would not advise using push sticks that are bought. Customize your own from multiplex, plywood with a lot of layers, say, 9 layers. I made mine from Baltic Birch, which is readily available in our area. The composite ones that you can buy may have a tendency to break up under use, and even shatter when it comes in contact with a running blade. But a plywood push stick is able to run right through the blade when cutting very thin veneers off of solid pieces. You just have to watch how you hold it, so that you're holding it in line between your shoulder and the blade, applying firm pressure, and cutting somewhat slower, as slow as you can without burning the cut. I would advise having an experienced woodworker show you how, then it's a breeze.
When you're buying a table saw, you should always think of quality first. Its a primary tool, and it does not pay, in the long run and often in the short run too, to get deals on mediocre equipment. TradeMaster is popular, but its geared for the hobbyist, and does not have the quality that a really good one has. The trouble is, Delta's garage-grade tablesaws are the of the same lower quality as TradeMaster. So look for one with a full body to it, a real shop saw. Keep your eye open for deals from local people who use quality tools, but need to get rid of the one they have in order to upgrade, or just because they want to do something else. People who work shifts in big factories, making big money, like to buy this kind of equipment too, and make things for furniture companies on their off-hours.
As I implied above, the fence system is important. If you don't have a good reliable fence, your cuts won't be good either. It needs to be adjustable to the blade for easy alignment, but equally important is that it stays in line once you've set it, no matter how often you move the fence. In other words, you should be able to set your fence to the increment that you need, push the set lever, and it should be in line with the blade automatically, every time. If you can count it with every cut, then your cuts will be more confident, and that will increase the quality of your cuts. You can cut a better, straighter edge than the factory, easily.
(Or you can buy my Unisaw. I don't need it anymore. I don't think I can go back to doing what I was doing, as much as I'd like to. )
I am a cabinetmaker by trade. The one I like the best is Delta's Unisaw (with the Unifence system built right on it.) If you take care of your equipmment, I find this the best that I've used. It's actually a Variety Saw, and that's how I use it too. I've made baseboard trim with it, as well as just cut panels.
The thing to look for is top quality bearings on the drive. You also need adequate power, so that the blade speed is able to keep up with whatever you're cutting. I would say a minimum of 1 hp., 2 hp if you can get it without spending too much,. A Unisaw around here is at least $3000.
As far as blade is concerned, don't fall too quickly for the Triple Chip blades when a good ATB will do a better job. You'll find that an ATB blade (alternate tooth bevel) can be more versatile, and handle particle Board every bit as well as a Triple Chip.
I would not advise using push sticks that are bought. Customize your own from multiplex, plywood with a lot of layers, say, 9 layers. I made mine from Baltic Birch, which is readily available in our area. The composite ones that you can buy may have a tendency to break up under use, and even shatter when it comes in contact with a running blade. But a plywood push stick is able to run right through the blade when cutting very thin veneers off of solid pieces. You just have to watch how you hold it, so that you're holding it in line between your shoulder and the blade, applying firm pressure, and cutting somewhat slower, as slow as you can without burning the cut. I would advise having an experienced woodworker show you how, then it's a breeze.
When you're buying a table saw, you should always think of quality first. Its a primary tool, and it does not pay, in the long run and often in the short run too, to get deals on mediocre equipment. TradeMaster is popular, but its geared for the hobbyist, and does not have the quality that a really good one has. The trouble is, Delta's garage-grade tablesaws are the of the same lower quality as TradeMaster. So look for one with a full body to it, a real shop saw. Keep your eye open for deals from local people who use quality tools, but need to get rid of the one they have in order to upgrade, or just because they want to do something else. People who work shifts in big factories, making big money, like to buy this kind of equipment too, and make things for furniture companies on their off-hours.
As I implied above, the fence system is important. If you don't have a good reliable fence, your cuts won't be good either. It needs to be adjustable to the blade for easy alignment, but equally important is that it stays in line once you've set it, no matter how often you move the fence. In other words, you should be able to set your fence to the increment that you need, push the set lever, and it should be in line with the blade automatically, every time. If you can count it with every cut, then your cuts will be more confident, and that will increase the quality of your cuts. You can cut a better, straighter edge than the factory, easily.
(Or you can buy my Unisaw. I don't need it anymore. I don't think I can go back to doing what I was doing, as much as I'd like to. )
wsw201
Puritan Board Senior
Thanks for the info John. A couple of questions though.... what is a triple chip blade and a ATB blade?? 
Can you crosscut and rip with both? (I do know what crosscut and rip mean 
or at least I think I do 
).
BTW, $3,000 DOLLARS??? Is that Canadian??? I'm not a professional woodworker like you. If I was going to make a living at it I would certainly take on the expense, but I think I am more at the low end in regards to price range and experience. Maybe in the area of Craftsman, Hatachi, possibly Dewalt, etc. something you can buy at Home Depot or Loews. How do those sound.
Can you crosscut and rip with both? (I do know what crosscut and rip mean or at least I think I do ).BTW, $3,000 DOLLARS??? Is that Canadian??? I'm not a professional woodworker like you. If I was going to make a living at it I would certainly take on the expense, but I think I am more at the low end in regards to price range and experience. Maybe in the area of Craftsman, Hatachi, possibly Dewalt, etc. something you can buy at Home Depot or Loews. How do those sound.
JohnV
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Wayne:
What you're talking about is a table version of the table saw, I suppose. In those cases they're all pretty close, though I would still go with the name brands with reputation. Even that, though, can be deceiving, since many companies have changed hands so many times, and can just be another name for Black and Decker. So look for a solid, hefty body, something that's going to take the wear and tear of heavy material running over it over a lifetime of work. Check the bearings; check the underneath, the carriage structure, that it's solid and made of good material, not cheap cast; check for fence allignment capabilities (you won't waste your money of a good fence system, believe me. )
Triple Chip has an alternating system of teeth. One is bevelled one way, the next the other way, and a third has three cutting sides to it: flat on top, 45 degrees on each side. And this last one is set just a tad higher than the other two, so that it cuts the first before the other two, reducing chipping on the sides of the cut.
The ATB has alternating bevels on the teeth. One bevels to one side, the next to the other side. Usually this bevel is a greater bevel than on Triple Chip blades. Its like on a hand saw, where the teeth alternate set from side to side to allow for a cut a bit wider than the whole blade. By the way, did I mention that carbide blades are what you should get? How could I forget that!
If you want to do a combination of crosscutting and ripping with the same blade, then a combination blade is best when working with solid woods; but an ATB will do just fine on plywood and particleboard. I would get a blade for each duty; it helps to keep the blades working at their peak longer. You'll find that you'll be sharpening your blades more often if you do both jobs with one blade. Its the different resins that build up that reduces the quality of the cuts. There is a cleaning solution that you can use that helps, but someone else will have to inform you on that, as I never used them. As a cabinetmaker I had sets of blades that I used, alternating them between use and maintenance.
If you're going to be doing a lot of cutting at one time, especialy bigger pieces, I would fix the saw to some hard-to-move table. Smaller jobs don't need that, and a portable saw is handy. If you're doing a deck, for instance, once you have a corner fix you saw to a couple pieces of sufficient size, and clamp those to the deck, leaving yourself lots of room on both ends of the saw to run whole lengths through, and also leaving yourself enough room on either side for any crosscuts.
Once you get the hang of using your saw, you'll be making jigs. They're the secret to any job. The idea is to make yourself a mechanism out of material at hand that makes repetitive jobs routine: once you do it once, you can't miss for all the next cuts, they'll be all exactly the same. Even if you leave it for a year, you can still repeat the same cuts exactly. I have run pieces through the saw all different degrees from normal, and repeated the cuts later when I needed to. Its all in the jigs I made: I only had to figure it out once, then I had it for every cut afterward. But that's down the road, and I'm just bragging now, so don't pay me no mind.
Home Depot has some good deals on quality machinery from time to time. I don't know about Loews.
I would still think about buying a higher quality saw, looking around for deals. Check the newpaper ads, ask around at dealers, ask friends and neighbours. You won't be sorry if you paid a little more but got a lot better saw. Especially if you can put a decent fence system on it. That's one of the biggest drawbacks of the hobbyist-type saws, their fences. THE biggest, though, is the drive bearings and the body, whether they'll stand up to the use; you can always make your own fence system, but you can't do anything with the main carriage of the saw.
I better stop before I write a book. I hope this helps, Wayne.
What you're talking about is a table version of the table saw, I suppose. In those cases they're all pretty close, though I would still go with the name brands with reputation. Even that, though, can be deceiving, since many companies have changed hands so many times, and can just be another name for Black and Decker. So look for a solid, hefty body, something that's going to take the wear and tear of heavy material running over it over a lifetime of work. Check the bearings; check the underneath, the carriage structure, that it's solid and made of good material, not cheap cast; check for fence allignment capabilities (you won't waste your money of a good fence system, believe me. )
Triple Chip has an alternating system of teeth. One is bevelled one way, the next the other way, and a third has three cutting sides to it: flat on top, 45 degrees on each side. And this last one is set just a tad higher than the other two, so that it cuts the first before the other two, reducing chipping on the sides of the cut.
The ATB has alternating bevels on the teeth. One bevels to one side, the next to the other side. Usually this bevel is a greater bevel than on Triple Chip blades. Its like on a hand saw, where the teeth alternate set from side to side to allow for a cut a bit wider than the whole blade. By the way, did I mention that carbide blades are what you should get? How could I forget that!
If you want to do a combination of crosscutting and ripping with the same blade, then a combination blade is best when working with solid woods; but an ATB will do just fine on plywood and particleboard. I would get a blade for each duty; it helps to keep the blades working at their peak longer. You'll find that you'll be sharpening your blades more often if you do both jobs with one blade. Its the different resins that build up that reduces the quality of the cuts. There is a cleaning solution that you can use that helps, but someone else will have to inform you on that, as I never used them. As a cabinetmaker I had sets of blades that I used, alternating them between use and maintenance.
If you're going to be doing a lot of cutting at one time, especialy bigger pieces, I would fix the saw to some hard-to-move table. Smaller jobs don't need that, and a portable saw is handy. If you're doing a deck, for instance, once you have a corner fix you saw to a couple pieces of sufficient size, and clamp those to the deck, leaving yourself lots of room on both ends of the saw to run whole lengths through, and also leaving yourself enough room on either side for any crosscuts.
Once you get the hang of using your saw, you'll be making jigs. They're the secret to any job. The idea is to make yourself a mechanism out of material at hand that makes repetitive jobs routine: once you do it once, you can't miss for all the next cuts, they'll be all exactly the same. Even if you leave it for a year, you can still repeat the same cuts exactly. I have run pieces through the saw all different degrees from normal, and repeated the cuts later when I needed to. Its all in the jigs I made: I only had to figure it out once, then I had it for every cut afterward. But that's down the road, and I'm just bragging now, so don't pay me no mind.
Home Depot has some good deals on quality machinery from time to time. I don't know about Loews.
I would still think about buying a higher quality saw, looking around for deals. Check the newpaper ads, ask around at dealers, ask friends and neighbours. You won't be sorry if you paid a little more but got a lot better saw. Especially if you can put a decent fence system on it. That's one of the biggest drawbacks of the hobbyist-type saws, their fences. THE biggest, though, is the drive bearings and the body, whether they'll stand up to the use; you can always make your own fence system, but you can't do anything with the main carriage of the saw.
I better stop before I write a book. I hope this helps, Wayne.
For the woodworking you are going to be doing, there is no need to spend 3 grand on a tablesaw. One of the portable 10" saws by dewalt, makita or skil will do just fine for your needs and they are portable too. When I was a contractor, I used to bring a 10" skil tablesaw on the job with me and I'd rip 12'pressure treated planks with it no problem. There were a few times when I'd really smoke the saw, but it never broke. The smaller ones are direct drive too, so they can really take a beating without bogging down.
As far as routers, it really depends what you are going to use it for. I have 4 but mostly use my 3 laminate trimmer routers that I keep different bits in so I don't have to keep changing them (for production guitarmaking). I like the smaller laminite trimmer type routers because they are compact and less cumbersome to use on small pieces. You can probably get by with a standard plunge type router by Makita or Ryobi, for example from H. Depot somewhere in the $100-$150 range or so.
BTW...Used tablesaws are very common in the local papers, so maybe you can get a 2nd hand one at a good price.
I seldom buy new power tools anymore, because you can get decent used stuff at a fraction of the cost.
[Edited on 9-27-2005 by Gregg]
As far as routers, it really depends what you are going to use it for. I have 4 but mostly use my 3 laminate trimmer routers that I keep different bits in so I don't have to keep changing them (for production guitarmaking). I like the smaller laminite trimmer type routers because they are compact and less cumbersome to use on small pieces. You can probably get by with a standard plunge type router by Makita or Ryobi, for example from H. Depot somewhere in the $100-$150 range or so.
BTW...Used tablesaws are very common in the local papers, so maybe you can get a 2nd hand one at a good price.
I seldom buy new power tools anymore, because you can get decent used stuff at a fraction of the cost.
[Edited on 9-27-2005 by Gregg]
LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
I'll second John on the Delta Unisaw. Although, I like my Biesmeyer Fence and extension.
The saws you listed are decent. I've had the all and the Hitachi is lightyears better than the rest. I have one that has been thrown around and (ab)used on jobsites for three years. It still runs true. The only thing I don't like about it is the washer on the bevel lock screw is undersized. But, that is easily remedied. It is almost half the price of the DeWalt and a much better saw with 33% more table.
The saws you listed are decent. I've had the all and the Hitachi is lightyears better than the rest. I have one that has been thrown around and (ab)used on jobsites for three years. It still runs true. The only thing I don't like about it is the washer on the bevel lock screw is undersized. But, that is easily remedied. It is almost half the price of the DeWalt and a much better saw with 33% more table.
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
Wow. I'm way behind the curve! But I am an ameteur. I wish I had more time to improve my wood working skills. I have a portable Skil saw, Riobi Compound Miter, and a Skil band saw. But that's about it. But they serve my purposes.
JohnV
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Gregg is right about routers. I agree that the ones he listed are good ones, and they take the work on very well. But watch the hp on them for the work you want to do. You do need a bigger one for bigger jobs. I wore one out just on one job because I overused it; it actually did not have enough power to do the job, but it was all I had. I ended up buying a new router because the one I used blew up. I mean, there was stuff flying out of the motor. I'm not one to push tools beyond their capabilities, usually. Normally I didn't do jobs like that, and didn't need a heavier one, but this taught me a lesson about tools.
I guess you can tell that I'm not as lenient when it comes to table saws. I've used the portable ones too, and even had one to tote from job to job. But I did a lot more than rip and crosscut with it.
But that brings up another thing. I add a table that is about 1/8 to 1/4 inch lower behind the saw, long enough so that when you push full sheets through, you aren't fighting them to keep them flat on the saw. I add a long saw horse, exactly the same height at the saw on the left, so that I don't fight a long sheet that way either; but that one I can move left or right, or just remove it alltogether, as the need arises. My saw came with a table on the right, so that the fence would extend out to the full width of a sheet of plywood. The less you fight the piece you're cutting the easier it is to push it through straight, and the easier the saw cuts it.
Above all, respect your tools.
Most everything is common sense, though. But for people like me common sense doesn't kick in until you've done it the wrong way, or until someone shows you a better way. The fun, I think, is in the making of jigs to do complicated repetitive jobs. Those jigs on the wall of carpentry shops are really trophies, you know. Each one represents a victory of some sort, something that defied the odds and came out on top. And they show how much common sense you've acquired through experience.
What are your plans, Wayne? Is it a hobby you're taking up? Or are you planning a project?
I guess you can tell that I'm not as lenient when it comes to table saws. I've used the portable ones too, and even had one to tote from job to job. But I did a lot more than rip and crosscut with it.
But that brings up another thing. I add a table that is about 1/8 to 1/4 inch lower behind the saw, long enough so that when you push full sheets through, you aren't fighting them to keep them flat on the saw. I add a long saw horse, exactly the same height at the saw on the left, so that I don't fight a long sheet that way either; but that one I can move left or right, or just remove it alltogether, as the need arises. My saw came with a table on the right, so that the fence would extend out to the full width of a sheet of plywood. The less you fight the piece you're cutting the easier it is to push it through straight, and the easier the saw cuts it.
Above all, respect your tools.
Most everything is common sense, though. But for people like me common sense doesn't kick in until you've done it the wrong way, or until someone shows you a better way. The fun, I think, is in the making of jigs to do complicated repetitive jobs. Those jigs on the wall of carpentry shops are really trophies, you know. Each one represents a victory of some sort, something that defied the odds and came out on top. And they show how much common sense you've acquired through experience.
What are your plans, Wayne? Is it a hobby you're taking up? Or are you planning a project?
wsw201
Puritan Board Senior
John,
My wife has been watching those DIY shows like In A Fix on TLC and says "you can do that!". But I kept telling her that I didn't have the tools to do the things they were doing! Plus I hadn't done any serious woodworking since 9th grade shop! So she bought me a bunch of tools (circular saw, belt sander, jigsaw). So I now have a project list!
My wife has been watching those DIY shows like In A Fix on TLC and says "you can do that!". But I kept telling her that I didn't have the tools to do the things they were doing! Plus I hadn't done any serious woodworking since 9th grade shop! So she bought me a bunch of tools (circular saw, belt sander, jigsaw). So I now have a project list!
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
I recommend anything used and not stolen.
JohnV
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Well, Wayne, if you need some tips or help with something, I'm here for you. I owe you anyways.
I really had to laught at Peter's post. I can't stop chuckling about that. That was a really good one. I can just see a Tim Taylor type of scenario, more sawdust flying than could possible come from a blade, redecorating the entire field of flowerbeds in the backyard, and the neighbour's to boot.
If you happen to like it, and want to go into it more, I can't stress enough the value of quality tools, tools for the job that do the job. Take your time and shop around for the right tool for the right price.
LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
Peter,
Not trying to whip on you here, but your knowledge of router use is obviously limited. With a circular saw and sander you cannot:
Plunge mortises
Cut blind dovetails
Cut open dovetails
Cut running dovetails
Cut sliding dovetails
Make window muntins
Run cove edgeing
Chamfer consistently
Reed a column or mantle leg
Flute a head piece
Use jigs and turn it into a lathe
Shape ogees, oviolo, french curves, etc.
Make a rule joint . . .
Should I keep going? The list is almost endless. I learned all of these and many more techniques absolutely essential for a joiner, finish carpenter, and cabinet maker on hand tools; tools that most people can't even recognise any longer. You can do all of them with one tool-a router. And usually faster. Although I still love setting up my Stanley 45 and run moldings and such, but for most work I use my router.
Not trying to whip on you here, but your knowledge of router use is obviously limited. With a circular saw and sander you cannot:
Plunge mortises
Cut blind dovetails
Cut open dovetails
Cut running dovetails
Cut sliding dovetails
Make window muntins
Run cove edgeing
Chamfer consistently
Reed a column or mantle leg
Flute a head piece
Use jigs and turn it into a lathe
Shape ogees, oviolo, french curves, etc.
Make a rule joint . . .
Should I keep going? The list is almost endless. I learned all of these and many more techniques absolutely essential for a joiner, finish carpenter, and cabinet maker on hand tools; tools that most people can't even recognise any longer. You can do all of them with one tool-a router. And usually faster. Although I still love setting up my Stanley 45 and run moldings and such, but for most work I use my router.
Lawrence, not to argue with a master carpenter but, I understand the router is an incredibly versitile tool but I think you're missing my point - when will an amatuer carpenter need to make dovetails? I just made window muntins w/o a router. You can chamfer with a belt sander. My point isn't that the router isn't a good tool. all i'm saying is that someone on a tight budget who only intends to do small jobs here-and-there doesn't need one, which is exactly Wayne's circumstance and I thought the subject of this thread.
wsw201
Puritan Board Senior
Actually Peter, I think I have the BUG! My dad recently gave me his old router plus I went out and bought a miter saw! So any budget has gone out the window (with the exception of $3,000 for a table saw)!! One thing I have found is that good bits for the router can run into some bucks, but what the heck.
JohnV
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Its not the router, its the bits that cost. A carpenter like Lawrence would need quite a selection of them, and to get good ones that don't burn the first time you use them is quite expensive. But if you get them one at a time, as you need them (unless you happen on a really good deal for a set of them) then its not so bad. But each bit, then, gives you the time to think about each one, how often you'll use it, what you can do with it, etc. If you need it just once, then borrow it and pay a few dollars for its use, just to help pay for resharpening. Routers themselves are comparable in price to any other hand-held tool, according to the quality of the tool.
In a way I agree with Peter, because when I started on my own I did not have the tools I needed, and I got by. But I agree with Lawrence that you are just getting by, and not that well, if you don't have the right tools to do the job. Sure, I've made things too without the right tools, and my ingenuity won out; but that doesn't mean that I was satisfied with it.
My first job was making a round table with three legs. I had to make the top by gluing up a panel. I didn't have an overhead sander, so I did it with a belt sander. I know, I can see Lawrence cringing over that. But I'm good at the belt sander, and I used straight edges often to sight my work. I was very careful, and it took a long time. But the finished result was pretty good. It was not perfect, but not bad either. I got by. As hard as I tried, I was not as satisfied as I wanted to be, but it was passable. I was selling this table, it was not for myself, so my expectation for it was pretty high. I borrowed the belt sander to do it, and used the profit from the job to buy my own, which was a better one than the one I borrowed. I also had to make a rounded skirt to fit the table exactly, and the table had to be perfectly round. I did all that with just a belt sander. Man, the jigs I had to make in order to do that. Then I had to edge the table, for which I would accept no other tool than a router. Well I had one, but not the bit for the edge I wanted. So I had to buy that, and that put me behind the eightball even before the job was done. With buying that bit and a sander, there was nothing left to pay any bills with. It was not a big table, maybe 30", with a lower shelf. It was for a couple living on the lake, who wanted a breakfast/coffee combination as they viewed the lake. They still rave about it, because of the design, making it with three legs but making it untippable, a particulary tough combination. I aced the design, but I lacked on the tools to do the kind of job that I would expect from myself.
The thing is, this kind of thing is well within Wayne's reach to do. Peter's too. One drawback would be the limitation one feels, like Wayne did, in not having the tools for the job. With a modest arsenal of tools, one can have confidence right from the start, not even thinking about tools, but rather about design and possibilities of woods, hidden joints, unusual details, etc.
Wayne, just work up to that $3000 saw. It will cost you less than $2000, or it should. That's what I would sell mine for, its about the market price. Its every bit as good as a brand new one, but its got the wear marks on it from a lot of use. In the meantime, buy yourself a good quality table model, looking for the quality in the body and the carriage, making your own fence system ( one for each job if that's what it takes; they're not hard to make to get the result you want ), and then sell it for a good price when you're ready to move up, and buy someone elses better saw when they want to move up. Even cabinet makers move up, selling their Unisaws at cutrate prices. You can even get an outdated Altendorff, the cream of the crop of table saws, at reasonable prices, though that's a lot more difficult.
In a way I agree with Peter, because when I started on my own I did not have the tools I needed, and I got by. But I agree with Lawrence that you are just getting by, and not that well, if you don't have the right tools to do the job. Sure, I've made things too without the right tools, and my ingenuity won out; but that doesn't mean that I was satisfied with it.
My first job was making a round table with three legs. I had to make the top by gluing up a panel. I didn't have an overhead sander, so I did it with a belt sander. I know, I can see Lawrence cringing over that. But I'm good at the belt sander, and I used straight edges often to sight my work. I was very careful, and it took a long time. But the finished result was pretty good. It was not perfect, but not bad either. I got by. As hard as I tried, I was not as satisfied as I wanted to be, but it was passable. I was selling this table, it was not for myself, so my expectation for it was pretty high. I borrowed the belt sander to do it, and used the profit from the job to buy my own, which was a better one than the one I borrowed. I also had to make a rounded skirt to fit the table exactly, and the table had to be perfectly round. I did all that with just a belt sander. Man, the jigs I had to make in order to do that. Then I had to edge the table, for which I would accept no other tool than a router. Well I had one, but not the bit for the edge I wanted. So I had to buy that, and that put me behind the eightball even before the job was done. With buying that bit and a sander, there was nothing left to pay any bills with. It was not a big table, maybe 30", with a lower shelf. It was for a couple living on the lake, who wanted a breakfast/coffee combination as they viewed the lake. They still rave about it, because of the design, making it with three legs but making it untippable, a particulary tough combination. I aced the design, but I lacked on the tools to do the kind of job that I would expect from myself.
The thing is, this kind of thing is well within Wayne's reach to do. Peter's too. One drawback would be the limitation one feels, like Wayne did, in not having the tools for the job. With a modest arsenal of tools, one can have confidence right from the start, not even thinking about tools, but rather about design and possibilities of woods, hidden joints, unusual details, etc.
Wayne, just work up to that $3000 saw. It will cost you less than $2000, or it should. That's what I would sell mine for, its about the market price. Its every bit as good as a brand new one, but its got the wear marks on it from a lot of use. In the meantime, buy yourself a good quality table model, looking for the quality in the body and the carriage, making your own fence system ( one for each job if that's what it takes; they're not hard to make to get the result you want ), and then sell it for a good price when you're ready to move up, and buy someone elses better saw when they want to move up. Even cabinet makers move up, selling their Unisaws at cutrate prices. You can even get an outdated Altendorff, the cream of the crop of table saws, at reasonable prices, though that's a lot more difficult.
wsw201
Puritan Board Senior
Well I took the plunge! After careful consideration, scouting out the best saw for the best price, I bought a Ridgid TS3650. Its a nice table saw, cast iron top, good fence, and it can go stationary or mobile! Its obviously not the top quality saw that John and Lawrence use but it will do just fine. I have put it together (it took 2 days! lousy instructions) started it up (nothing fell off or exploded) and now its CUTTIN' TIME !! 
JohnV
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Way to go, Wayne. Watch those fingers.
First thing to do is make:
1. push sticks that you can cut through and still push things through the saw. A piece of 5/8" or 1/2" plywood is ideal, especially if you can find nine-ply stock.
2. a receiving table, that will take the longer pieces after they've been through the blade, so that you don't have to hold them down too as you're pushing them through the saw. The table should be ever so slightly lower than your saw, and should be able to receive the longest pieces you put through the saw, so that when they are through the blade you can take your hands off the piece and it will just lay there. Include also a sawhorse for the left side, so rest the longer pieces that are being cross-cut. Don't fight against the laws of nature while you're cutting. Its a safety thing.
3. And that's actually the most important thing: look at your saw and make hard and fast rules for using it. For example, I made the absolute rule that the push stick is used whenever the fence is closer than 2 inches, NO EXCEPTIONS!!! Another was that the guides on the table for the mitre guage are also the lines used for hand placement on stock being cut, NO CLOSER !!! Make these a habitual practice, always observed, and you won't get into trouble. If special cuts require the suspension of these rules, then I look for different ways to do those cuts to ensure safety. Allow for the unexpected as much as possible.
First thing to do is make:
1. push sticks that you can cut through and still push things through the saw. A piece of 5/8" or 1/2" plywood is ideal, especially if you can find nine-ply stock.
2. a receiving table, that will take the longer pieces after they've been through the blade, so that you don't have to hold them down too as you're pushing them through the saw. The table should be ever so slightly lower than your saw, and should be able to receive the longest pieces you put through the saw, so that when they are through the blade you can take your hands off the piece and it will just lay there. Include also a sawhorse for the left side, so rest the longer pieces that are being cross-cut. Don't fight against the laws of nature while you're cutting. Its a safety thing.
3. And that's actually the most important thing: look at your saw and make hard and fast rules for using it. For example, I made the absolute rule that the push stick is used whenever the fence is closer than 2 inches, NO EXCEPTIONS!!! Another was that the guides on the table for the mitre guage are also the lines used for hand placement on stock being cut, NO CLOSER !!! Make these a habitual practice, always observed, and you won't get into trouble. If special cuts require the suspension of these rules, then I look for different ways to do those cuts to ensure safety. Allow for the unexpected as much as possible.
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