Jesus' humanity today
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Blood-Bought Pilgrim
Puritan Board Sophomore
My understanding is that he still has a true, though glorified, human nature. He did seem to eat with his disciples post-resurrection, and he still bore scars. This is also one of the reasons why the Reformed deny the Catholic and Lutheran doctrines of transubstantiation and consubstantiation-- to claim that Jesus' physical body is present would seem to imply that his body is not a real human body bound by space and time.
What exactly the "limitations" are for glorified humanity could be a matter of some debate, of course.
WLC
I think the need to sleep or eat might be a "common infirmity." Calvin on eating the fish in Luke 24:43 says:
He does not experience pain, which he did during his estate of humiliation. As for learning, while I believe he has been given even greater revelations in glorification than he experienced before, I believe in his human nature he is still not omniscient.
davejonescue
Puritan Board Junior
Could we not get a glimpse of some of this in the Revelation to John when Jesus appeared in his glorified state? Eyes like fire, Hair white as wool, feet like burning bronze, voice like many waters; the self-proclamation of being the Alpha & Omega. Not sure what type of limitations he now has, but John fell down as dead at the sight of him glorified, which he didnt do at his transfiguration with Moses and Elijah, nor do we see either Mary do so at the sight of Angels. Jesus whether taking on human flesh is Very God of Very God; and if I am correct, the only part of the Trinity the Saints will ever behold. I really cannot see him having any limitations, except the ability to sin.
Surely he is supremely glorious in a way that he was not on earth before the ascension. And yet, even by being in a place and visible he is limited in his human nature in a way he is not in his divine nature. This is a major point of disagreement with Lutherans, who believe his human nature is omnipresent and so we can receive it locally in the supper.
davejonescue
Puritan Board Junior
In what way would that be though? Did he not suddenly appear to his disciples after his resurrection, so that this would signify that he is not confined to physicality? He is seen to do this even prior to his crucifixion when "walking through the midst of them?" I am interested to know in what way he is limited by his humanity post-glorification?
"Jesus says, “Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.”
With this being said, this seems like a topic way above my pay grade, so I am going to bow out.
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This would be a miracle by the power of the Spirit.
This glory would be of his divine nature, which preexisted his human nature.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Very true, but one of the reasons we are Reformed and not Lutheran is we reject the view that Christ overcame Chalcedonian limitations. Human nature, even a glorified one, is circumscribed.
Alfredsparks
Puritan Board Freshman
To add to this, Wilhelmus à Brakel says: "He ate with his disciples to further assure them of His resurrection, not because He was in need of nourishment. His stomach also did not digest this nourishment, since this would be inconsistent with a glorified body. Rather, by His omnipotence He caused the food to disappear." (The Christian's Reasonable Service 1:630)
Jerusalem Blade
Puritan Board Professor
In Matthew 26:29KJV, Jesus said, "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom." We need not resort to His making the food or drink disappear when He eats it anew in the kingdom; it may well be that our glorified bodies can fully absorb whatever we eat or drink, leaving no residue or waste.
In Isaiah 65:17KJV, in the new heavens and the new earth, we read –
And in Revelation 22:2KJV, in the kingdom of glory we read,
We do not know what seemingly "miraculous" powers our glorified bodies – including that of our King's – will have in the eternal state.
In Isaiah 65:17KJV, in the new heavens and the new earth, we read –
And they shall build houses, and inhabit them;
and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
They shall not build, and another inhabit;
they shall not plant, and another eat:
for as the days of a tree are the days of my people,
and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isaiah 65:21-22KJV –
And in Revelation 22:2KJV, in the kingdom of glory we read,
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
We do not know what seemingly "miraculous" powers our glorified bodies – including that of our King's – will have in the eternal state.
Jerusalem Blade
Puritan Board Professor
In His glorified state, Jesus' humanity – His "flesh" – is not in the same relation to His deity, His divine nature, as it was here on earth. In Hebrews 5:7-8KJV, we read, "Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered" – there were times He was not supported by the power of His deity, but as a human, with strong crying and tears, prayed just as we must do, for strength and heart to endure hardship and suffering.
But now His deity is fully and always active, His primary consciousness in His deity. For now, "...in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Col 2:9KJV). The remarkable thing is that we, His bride, will then – our union fully consummated – be one body with Him (Eph 5:30KJV), and the glory of His deity be immediately communicated to and in us, we lowly mortals in union with His flesh smitten with His divine beauty and majesty, world without end. (1 John 3:2KJV) : "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is."
But now His deity is fully and always active, His primary consciousness in His deity. For now, "...in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Col 2:9KJV). The remarkable thing is that we, His bride, will then – our union fully consummated – be one body with Him (Eph 5:30KJV), and the glory of His deity be immediately communicated to and in us, we lowly mortals in union with His flesh smitten with His divine beauty and majesty, world without end. (1 John 3:2KJV) : "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is."
Jerusalem Blade
Puritan Board Professor
Hello John, would you please give me the section where that is in Turretin? Thanks!
Note that I did not say essence, but glory. We may by the Spirit know His glory even in this life, as a foretaste of what is to come.
Note that I did not say essence, but glory. We may by the Spirit know His glory even in this life, as a foretaste of what is to come.
20.VIII.XIV. It is interesting that he doesn't say one way or the other for sure, and even seems to leave open the door for seeing the essence of God (though elsewhere he is sure that whatever it is is "inadequate and apprehensive.")
I wasn't sure about "immediate," but reading your explanation I think it's fine. If it means that we no longer see God by faith but by (spiritual) sight, then perhaps the beatific vision could be said to be immediate in that way rather than the mediated (by faith) vision we have now.
Jerusalem Blade
Puritan Board Professor
Hello John, moving on to 20.VIII.XVI (Vol 3, p 612), we see Turretin say, re the beatific vision in glory,
Thanks for pointing to him!
XVI. The third part of happiness will be joy flowing from the vision and love of God and the fruition by love, not light and momentary, not false and impure (such as the earthly, which is at once changed into sadness and grief), but true, pure, unspeakable and eternal, which no one shall take away from us (Jn. 16:22; 1 Pet. 1:6). This is expressed by fulness of joy, pleasures for evermore and the wiping away of all tears (Ps. 16:11; Is. 25:8; Rev. 21:4). It will arise from the possession of God himself, which, as he is the supreme good, embraces the universality and perpetuity of all blessings. Whatever is desired will be present there, nor will anything be desired which is not becoming. God will be seen without end, loved without cloying, praised without weariness. “And he will be all in all” (1 Cor. 15:28) inasmuch as he will pour immediately upon the saints his light, love, holiness, joy, glory, life and a fulness of all blessings and will dwell in them for ever (Rev. 21:3). Here God in grace communicates himself to his people mediately by the word and sacraments and imparts his gifts not fully, but in part. But then he will communicate himself immediately to the saints, nor only in part but fully and wholly (holōs). He will be “all things” as to the universality of good things which can be required for absolute happiness and “in all” as to the universality of the subjects because he will bestow all these blessings undividedly upon all the blessed. Here belongs what is said in Rev. 21:22, 23: “I saw no temple in the city: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.” [emphasis added]
Thanks for pointing to him!
Thanks, I’ve learned a lot!
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