We have pews outside of church. We just don't call them pews. The're called park benches....
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
We have pews outside of church. We just don't call them pews. The're called park benches....
I have a personal anecdote from last Sunday's worship service at my church.
At the end of the service, the "band" was singing a song and everyone was seated.
One person was apparantly so "caught up in the spirit" that she had her hand up in the air. She was the only one! Everyone else was just sitting there listening to the song, except for this lady who was making a spectacle of herself waving her hand and arm around everywhere (I think she might have even stood up, even though everyone else is seated)... she looked ridiculous. Before I rushed to judgment against her and that it was not really the Spirit moving her, I tried one last time to assess the situation: sure enough I was right. It wasn't the Spirit, for the song that was being sung was "Bridge Over Troubled Water" by Garfunkle or whoever... how is raising your hands to that glorifying Christ??? She just liked the "tune" and that's why she was waving around!
the song that was being sung was "Bridge Over Troubled Water" by Garfunkle or whoever
We have pews outside of church. We just don't call them pews. The're called park benches....
Please forgive me - when I read that I thought your church must be 'reformed seeker sensitive', playing Simon&Garfunkel instead of U2........
Uh, seriously....what's the reasoning behind playing that song in a worship service?
LifeInReturn,
I felt compelled to raise my hands in worship, and I didn't know how 'other people' would look at me either, but something that really weighed down on my heart concerning that was...I was making other peoples opinions and what THEY would think, more important than what the Holy Spirit laid on my heart to do.
So I started raising my hands in worship when singing as I felt led to do so, a few of the elderly in our church (70's and 80's) have made comments to me, nothing negative, just they had felt led to do the same, but were concerned about how 'others' would percieve them. I just hugged them and let them know, if they feel compelled to raise thier hands in praise for all God has done for them, then raise their hands in praise to God, that IS why we are there anyway, right? to Worship God! Not other people.
But something to consider, if they are looking at you, their focus is on you, and not God. Which is something the Holy Spirit has convicted me of, am I there looking for the approval of men or to worship God?
you never know, others in your congregation may have the same fear you do, "what will 'other people' think if I raise my hands in praise to God when I sing?" Which is ultimately the fear of man, and not God. And you never know, if you lift your hands, if others have the same fear, it may encourage them to overcome the same fear of mans opinion.
Letting individuals in the congregation express their devotion however they want in the pews leads to a fragmented body worshipping "on their own" instead of with everyone around them, which can be distracting and take away from the unification of the worshipping body of saints. .
I was talking to my friend Brandon about the disconnect between sound doctrine and worship. In most PCA churches, the teaching is on point, but the worship is ‘dry’. By ‘dry’, I mean there is no lifting of hands, no moving, just standing there holding your hymn book and singing along with everyone. At the charismatic churches, the teaching is not always on point, but the worship is. Hands are raised, knees are bent. Personally, I am a ‘lift hands’ type of girl when singing, praying, and worshipping. I kneel and sometimes tears are shed, but if I were to do that at my current church (a PCA), I’d be looked at as if I just grew an arm out of my forehead. Where is the ‘happy medium’ ? One of the many things I admire about Epiphany Fellowship (in Philly) is that there is a beautiful merge of the two - doctrinally sound teaching and heartfelt worship. I’d love to be able to be in church with my hands raised while singing hymns without being looked at in an odd fashion. In this area, I think the church lacks… no proper marriage of the two. Emotionalism has been so pimped and abused that anytime emotion is expressed in a worship setting in a conservative church, it’s looked down upon. That’s a very sad thing. I’ve been in pentecostal / charismatic churches where people have been running around the church, screaming at the top of their lungs… I’ve been hit in the back of my head before by a woman sitting behind me who ‘caught the spirit’. I believe that God is a God of order and not confusion, so I think those acts have cast a bad light on true heartfelt appreciation of the Lord.
Thoughts ?
I was talking to my friend Brandon about the disconnect between sound doctrine and worship. In most PCA churches, the teaching is on point, but the worship is ‘dry’. By ‘dry’, I mean there is no lifting of hands, no moving, just standing there holding your hymn book and singing along with everyone. At the charismatic churches, the teaching is not always on point, but the worship is. Hands are raised, knees are bent. Personally, I am a ‘lift hands’ type of girl when singing, praying, and worshipping. I kneel and sometimes tears are shed, but if I were to do that at my current church (a PCA), I’d be looked at as if I just grew an arm out of my forehead. Where is the ‘happy medium’ ? One of the many things I admire about Epiphany Fellowship (in Philly) is that there is a beautiful merge of the two - doctrinally sound teaching and heartfelt worship. I’d love to be able to be in church with my hands raised while singing hymns without being looked at in an odd fashion. In this area, I think the church lacks… no proper marriage of the two. Emotionalism has been so pimped and abused that anytime emotion is expressed in a worship setting in a conservative church, it’s looked down upon. That’s a very sad thing. I’ve been in pentecostal / charismatic churches where people have been running around the church, screaming at the top of their lungs… I’ve been hit in the back of my head before by a woman sitting behind me who ‘caught the spirit’. I believe that God is a God of order and not confusion, so I think those acts have cast a bad light on true heartfelt appreciation of the Lord.
Thoughts ?
hand raising has biblical precedent...baton twirling does not..
This is not a debate of order versus disorder.
We all agree there should be order in the church.
It is the degree of order that we are talking about.
An enforced extra-biblical level of austerity may not be the biblical norm for everone even if we prefer this ourselves.
Most of this comes down to taste, custom and cultural tradition. A Scotsman is not going to worship like an Indonesian or African. Any appeal to an exclusively "Reformed" posture of worship is mere culture being mistaken for Gospel.
The Reformed are often guilty of taking a short splice of church history and trying to make it normative for Christians of all ages as far as external mannerism. The Puritans were childen of their culture and day also. Much of what they did externally was not Christian merely but very European and British, to include the tight lipped un-emotionalism of many.
I see lots of emotion in Scripture.
My Indonesian friends often raise their hands for worship (lifting up holy hands). Those from Muslim backgrounds pray with extended hands palm up as in their formerly Muslim ways. They also look up at the heavens instead of down at the dirt when they pray...which, really, makes more sense. Why do we look down or fold our hands palms together. WHy not lay prostrate on the floor or bow our knee to the Father (I think we do not kneel for prayer because the early Reformers were anti-Catholic and did not even want to appear as a kneeling Catholic).
We have pews outside of church. We just don't call them pews. The're called park benches....
I would have to say that in many churches today people just raise their hands for show and to impress others. I personally have a very biased opinion toward this topic. I have grown up around southern Baptists churches that were backward in many of their beliefs. I would see many people that i knew were not christians raising their hands, crying, and carrying on, and i knew they didnt mean it. The next weekend they would go out and party. So i think one needs to be very careful about this.
In my church services, usually, not a hand will be put in the air, and Im really thankful for that. I have seen the most heart-fealt worship and praise in my church than any other "hand-raising" services i have been to. It has been very rare, in my case, to see a service of people who raise their hands and are "filled with the spirit" that are really true and are not just to impress.
Gabriel:
Funny, ....... twirl your baton for the Lord brother! JUst maybe not in the gathered assembly.
Incidentally many beleivers here pray with hands extended. It is not due to emotional rapturous feelings, but often local custom. The Bible does say LIFT holy hands in prayer.
No mention of baton swirling in Scripture occurs, however.