modern prophets

Discussion in 'Pneumatology' started by johnny_redeemed, May 18, 2004.

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  1. rembrandt

    rembrandt Puritan Board Sophomore

    [quote:9908b7e0ab][i:9908b7e0ab]Originally posted by johnny_redeemed[/i:9908b7e0ab]
    what verses do you think are good at showing that the sign gifts are done away with? [/quote:9908b7e0ab]

    I can think of a number of passages that show that it is reasonable to agree with the testimony of the church that the gifts have 'virtually diminshed' and are not regulative for the entire church age. Those passages have already been discussed. Let me just say that if we were to go on 'Bible Alone', we would never end up at a full-cessationalist (meaning that the gifts could [i:9908b7e0ab]never[/i:9908b7e0ab] happen again) position. People such as McArthur have sad arguments for the case. Verses such as 1 Cor. 13:8-10 does NOT prove anything about cessationalism for the present age, except that the gifts are not needed forever. Even when I was a full-cessationalist, I didn't agree with the cess. interpretation of that verse.

    The only thing I say is that the testimony and history of the church has unanimously decided that the revelatory gifts are not in use like they were during the apostolic age. And then I point to the Ephesians passage that the foundation has already been laid. For any body to contradict that, they are schismatics.

    Rembrandt
     
  2. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    quote some church fathers that say the sign gifts are not for today.


    :handshake:
     
  3. rembrandt

    rembrandt Puritan Board Sophomore

    [quote:d85eb27c0c][i:d85eb27c0c]Originally posted by johnny_redeemed[/i:d85eb27c0c]
    quote some church fathers that say the sign gifts are not for today.


    :handshake: [/quote:d85eb27c0c]

    Yes, but don't forget to also quote some of the church fathers that there was prophesying going on during their own time... that there friends received prophesy and that they also received prophesy...

    I cannot argue from church history or church testimony that there NEVER was providential predictive prophesy (post-apostolic age)... history would throw me on my head.

    But I can conclude that this is NOT the prophesy that Paul said we must "desire" in 1 Cor. 12-14. The only prophesy that could occur now-adays are sparadic happenings.

    That being said on prophesy, tongues is another story. It appears that 'most' early Church Fathers didn't even know what tongues were... they were dumbfounded and couldn't come up with any real answers as to what it looked like or what purpose it served. I think that is enough evidence that tongues serve no real purpose when the church is rightly established.

    So, I am not a full-cessationalist, but I believe I have sufficient evidence that continuing prophesy is pointless.

    Rembrandt
     
  4. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

     
  5. rembrandt

    rembrandt Puritan Board Sophomore

    2 posts ago I wrote:

    [quote:6e2f66ca45]I can think of a number of passages that show that it is reasonable to agree with the testimony of the church that the gifts have 'virtually diminshed' and are not regulative for the entire church age. Those passages have already been discussed. Let me just say that if we were to go on 'Bible Alone', we would never end up at a full-cessationalist (meaning that the gifts could never happen again) position. People such as McArthur have sad arguments for the case. Verses such as 1 Cor. 13:8-10 does NOT prove anything about cessationalism for the present age, except that the gifts are not needed forever. Even when I was a full-cessationalist, I didn't agree with the cess. interpretation of that verse.

    The only thing I say is that the testimony and history of the church has unanimously decided that the revelatory gifts are not in use like they were during the apostolic age. And then I point to the Ephesians passage that the foundation has already been laid. For any body to contradict that, they are schismatics.

    Rembrandt[/quote:6e2f66ca45]

    I don't think I said anything in this post that contradicts that later.

    I appeal to the early church that the gifts have virtually diminished. I also appeal to the early church that there was providential predictive prophesy that was still going on and was recognized as valid. In sum, my position (the position of the early church) excludes full-cessationalism and non-cessationalism. We have good reason to believe that certain types of prophesy will not occur; we also have good reason to believe that there is not enough proof to establish that other types will [i:6e2f66ca45]never[/i:6e2f66ca45] occur.

    I think the testimony and history of the church is radically against both the 'non' and 'full' cessationalists.

    Rembrandt
     
  6. johnny_redeemed

    johnny_redeemed Puritan Board Freshman

    [quote:3bd523297f][i:3bd523297f]Originally posted by rembrandt[/i:3bd523297f]
    I appeal to the early church that the gifts have virtually diminished. I also appeal to the early church that there was providential predictive prophesy that was still going on and was recognized as valid. In sum, my position (the position of the early church) excludes full-cessationalism and non-cessationalism. We have good reason to believe that certain types of prophesy will not occur; we also have good reason to believe that there is not enough proof to establish that other types will [i:3bd523297f]never[/i:3bd523297f] occur.

    I think the testimony and history of the church is radically against both the 'non' and 'full' cessationalists.

    Rembrandt [/quote:3bd523297f]


    you continually appeal to early church history, but i have not seen a single quote form any church fathers to support you position. i do not know early church history like i should, so you could be right! but i want to see the quotes!!!


    :book:
     
  7. dswatts

    dswatts Puritan Board Freshman

    Good idea, Paul. Excellent series!

    Grace,
    Dwayne
     
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