PCA stated clerk keeping 'enemies list'

[retroGRAD3]

Anything by Joe Carter is usually worth reading.

Is this serious or sarcasm? I have seen some really woke articles by this man.

Example: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...american-evangelicals-did-not-vote-for-trump/

 

[Ploutos]

Is this serious or sarcasm? I have seen some really woke articles by this man.

Example: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...american-evangelicals-did-not-vote-for-trump/

u·su·al·ly /ˈyo͞oZH(əw)əlē/
adverb under normal conditions; generally.
"he usually arrives home about one o'clock"
synonyms: normally, generally, habitually, customarily, standardly, routinely, regularly, typically, ordinarily, commonly, conventionally, traditionally, historically, as a rule, as a general rule, in general, in the general run of things, by and large, more often than not, almost always, in the main, mainly, mostly, for the most part, most of the time, on the whole

It was serious. What's your question?

 

[Edward]

he didn't leave his family or his faith

McIntyre split from the PCUSA (or whatever the mainline northern church was calling itself at that point) and split with the OPC. Lane left the PCA for the OPC; Smith left the PCA for the RPCNA.

(I'm obviously fishing for patterns at this point)
[automerge]1748274872[/automerge]

Please remember that PCA process is involved at this point.

Which Presbytery? If it's Metro Atlanta, he's likely to have a home court advantage.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Why would Trueman make that list, though?

I thought that it might have to do with ESS, but I think it is more likely due to the fact that Trueman was the Dean of WTS and one of the faculty members who were exposing the errors of Peter Enns.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Anyone who has worked in PCA circles for a while and understands the "vibe" of the culturalist wing can understand why Chappell would consider those names as scandalizers. The outliers are actually Byrd and Higgins because culturalists generally blame the conservatives as if women are "forced" into their situation.

You have to remember that many culturalists were upset by the actions in the FV controversy. It's generally considered bad form by many to express any more than a furrowed brow at things like paedocommunion or Side B. You don't agree with it, but you want a "big tent" and to be "Missional".

So, when conservatives make noise inside the denomination beyond the furrowed brow, they are considered toxic and scandalizing.

Notice, however, that Jemar Tisby is not on that list because I think many believe that it's the fault of conservatives that he is where he is.

It's a bit of an exaggerated logic that I'm explaining but it's not far from the vibe of a substantial wing of the PCA. Let's just put it this way - if it was up to that wing, the PCA would be full-blown Sidde B accepting.

 

[arapahoepark]

I thought that it might have to do with ESS, but I think it is more likely due to the fact that Truema was the Dean of WTS and one of the faculty members who were exposing the errors of Peter Enns.

I do not understand the 'moderate' mindset of unity at all costs. If Enns' detractors haven't been vindicated in the last 15 years by his own work then I have no idea what to say. I wonder if his supporters are too embarrassed to say anything (I genuinely would love to hear from them but I digress.

Might as well make peace the Arians while we are at it, after all it has been 1700 years...

 

[J.L. Allen]

Anyone who has worked in PCA circles for a while and understands the "vibe" of the culturalist wing can understand why Chappell would consider those names as scandalizers. The outliers are actually Byrd and Higgins because culturalists generally blame the conservatives as if women are "forced" into their situation.

You have to remember that many culturalists were upset by the actions in the FV controversy. It's generally considered bad form by many to express any more than a furrowed brow at things like paedocommunion or Side B. You don't agree with it, but you want a "big tent" and to be "Missional".

So, when conservatives make noise inside the denomination beyond the furrowed brow, they are considered toxic and scandalizing.

Notice, however, that Jemar Tisby is not on that list because I think many believe that it's the fault of conservatives that he is where he is.

It's a bit of an exaggerated logic that I'm explaining but it's not far from the vibe of a substantial wing of the PCA. Let's just put it this way - if it was up to that wing, the PCA would be full-blown Sidde B accepting.

The mindset and practice you describe here are terrifying to me. Might as well make yourself comfortable as the church burns down around you. If people can't stomach debate or fighting to conserve orthodoxy and biblical holiness and practice, then they're in the wrong line of work. It's up to each generation to keep it.

 

[Ploutos]

Anyone who has worked in PCA circles for a while and understands the "vibe" of the culturalist wing can understand why Chappell would consider those names as scandalizers. The outliers are actually Byrd and Higgins because culturalists generally blame the conservatives as if women are "forced" into their situation.

You have to remember that many culturalists were upset by the actions in the FV controversy. It's generally considered bad form by many to express any more than a furrowed brow at things like paedocommunion or Side B. You don't agree with it, but you want a "big tent" and to be "Missional".

So, when conservatives make noise inside the denomination beyond the furrowed brow, they are considered toxic and scandalizing.

Notice, however, that Jemar Tisby is not on that list because I think many believe that it's the fault of conservatives that he is where he is.

It's a bit of an exaggerated logic that I'm explaining but it's not far from the vibe of a substantial wing of the PCA. Let's just put it this way - if it was up to that wing, the PCA would be full-blown Sidde B accepting.

Thank you; this helps to make sense of the "list" more than anything else I've heard so far.

I'll be very interested to see what comes of this.

 

[jwright82]

The mindset and practice you describe here are terrifying to me. Might as well make yourself comfortable as the church burns down around you. If people can't stomach debate or fighting to conserve orthodoxy and biblical holiness and practice, then they're in the wrong line of work. It's up to each generation to keep it.

Amen brother. Being a minister isn't like any other job, nor being an elder and involved in church leadership. It's a Holy calling and should not be made lightly.
My work nominally supports LGBTQ causes but obviously they don't require everyone to vocally support it, they legally can't. I tolerate it because I realize they just want to make money and happy workers do that for them.
But I live in a right to work state so if it bothered me to the point that I could not morally work there I can just leave. But the business of the church is not like that and ought to be held to a different standard, a Holy standard.
Good point sir.

 

[ZackF]

I do not understand the 'moderate' mindset of unity at all costs. If Enns' detractors haven't been vindicated in the last 15 years by his own work then I have no idea what to say. I wonder if his supporters are too embarrassed to say anything (I genuinely would love to hear from them but I digress.

Might as well make peace the Arians while we are at it, after all it has been 1700 years...

The mindset and practice you describe here are terrifying to me. Might as well make yourself comfortable as the church burns down around you. If people can't stomach debate or fighting to conserve orthodoxy and biblical holiness and practice, then they're in the wrong line of work. It's up to each generation to keep it.

We need to make it "easier" for a pastor who changes his convictions to leave with a semblance of his life and livelihood. This may be accepting a call in a different denomination. Whether or not someone moves to the left or the right, it should not be the goal of those who can to see him crushed and poverty stricken. Moral failings are a different situation. Even with that, as much as reasonably possible under the circumstances, the church should help him stabalize his and his family's lives.

These things happen as there are aforementioned examples. It doesn't happen enough though.

 

[arapahoepark]

We need to make it "easier" for a pastor who changes his convictions to leave with a semblance of his life and livelihood. This may be accepting a call in a different denomination. Whether or not someone moves to the left or the right, it should not be the goal of those who can to see him crushed and poverty stricken. Moral failings are a different situation. Even with that, as much as reasonably possible under the circumstances, the church should help him stabalize his and his family's lives.

These things happen as there are aforementioned examples. It doesn't happen enough though.

True. Hadn't thought of that. On the other hand, like you say, "to leave" is the key.

 

[Pomopu]

The Heidelblog and the issue in terms of a theology of sorts of scandal.

 

[Edward]

Other denominations with enemy lists: (When your Stated Clerk becomes a joke on Youtube).

 

[NaphtaliPress]

World Mag has a story and indicates there have been formal complaints. The story Dr. Hart relates again underscores the inexplicableness of the list. https://wng.org/roundups/pca-leader...iggers-ethics-probe-fraternal-rift-1748396203

 

[sgemmen9]

Sorry to hear this happened. There are some godly men I know personally on that list. In situations like these there's not much to do or say, so I pray. Hoping to not at fuel to the fire.

 

[Ploutos]

World Mag has a story and indicates there have been formal complaints. The story Dr. Hart relates again underscores the inexplicableness of the list. https://wng.org/roundups/pca-leader...iggers-ethics-probe-fraternal-rift-1748396203

Looks like Chapell has gotten himself in a lot of hot water over this.

 

[PointyHaired Calvinist]

For a man who hates “scandalizers” he’s caused a ton of scandal in the PCA and Reformed Churches in general.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

For a man who hates “scandalizers” he’s caused a ton of scandal in the PCA and Reformed Churches in general.

The irony is hard to miss.

 

[DanSSwing]

I don't have any "enemies" but I sometimes regret not having a list of theologians and their specific problematic issues. e.g. I'll occasionally forget why I distrust someone and it might be helpful to have a record of the specific disagreement rather than distrusting them altogether,

 

[gkterry]

I knew someone that when angry at another person would write the offending person's name on a slip of paper and put it in her freezer. Perhaps, that would be better.

 

[En Kristo]

Yeah, he's got to go.

yeah, I concur. The man straight up said he had kept a list on his desk of scandalizers… And he claimed that all these people had apostatized or whatever… It’s just brazen slander what he said, and in many cases the names on the list are shocking and reveals that his view of “scandalizers” is itself problematic because he includes people who spend their every energy trying to keep the church protected and NEVER introduced or defended scandal, but rather they labored tirelessly (though tactfully) to expose and remove scandal.

In my opinion, the objective fact is that it’s just been one thing after another since Chapell has been in that role. He’s clearly not cut out for it. I hope his resignation or removal is forthcoming.

If I give this post a thumbs up, am I going to end up on a list of scandalzers?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

A World podcast has responses from Trueman, Hart and Frank Smith. There is also a transcript.

 

[Edward]

I knew someone that when angry at another person would write the offending person's name on a slip of paper and put it in her freezer. Perhaps, that would be better.

That's terrible to hear.

As a child I was told to use toilet paper. And if they had really offended you, drop it in the bowl before you relieve yourself.. The stated clerk apparently missed that lesson.

For a man who hates “scandalizers” he’s caused a ton of scandal in the PCA and Reformed Churches in general.

I doubt he has the self awareness to put his own name on the list.

 

[ZackF]

As a child I was told to use toilet paper. And if they had really offended you, drop it in the bowl before you relieve yourself.. The stated clerk apparently missed that lesson.

Now taking a picture of THAT and presenting it during and interview would be a scandal^2

 

[SolusChristus]

Evidently, Bryan sent his request for retirement as Stated Clerk to the Administrative Committee. It appears that they are meeting soon during which the AC will act on his request.

Statement from Stated Clerk Bryan Chapell - byFaith

Bryan Chapell, the Stated Clerk of the Presbyterian Church in America, has issued a statement.

byfaithonline.com

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Does the PCA need a clerk now prior to GA, and so just wait till PCA GA in June to elect someone, or will Admin appoint an interim?

 

[Edward]

Evidently, Bryan sent his request for retirement as Stated Clerk to the Administrative Committee. It appears that they are meeting soon during which the AC will act on his request.

Sounds like things are working as they should. They need to accept it effective immediately and pay him through the end of June.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Does the PCA need a clerk now prior to GA, and so just wait till PCA GA in June to elect someone, or will Admin appoint an interim?

The AC will be meeting to discuss this next week.

 

[Edward]

The AC will be meeting to discuss this next week.

If they run it to the end of next week, that's only 10 business days from the start of the General Assembly.

 

[SolaScriptura]

If they're smart they'll have Fred be the interim for this year... and then come back next year saying that he's done a great job and present him officially to the Assembly to be voted on.