Sabbath-breaking

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Originally posted by Scott Bushey
David,
So the 10 commandments are abrogated?

So your telling me I should not eat pork even though I fully understand that its ok for me to do so!

[Edited on 1-22-2005 by just_grace]
 
Originally posted by Irishcat922
Here is a good article on the Sabbath.
http://www.freechurch.org/holdfast_6.html

Thank you for the link. Here's is a section that I think most pertient to this discussion:

"The growth of Sunday entertainments also militates against our observing the Lord's day in modern society. Commercialized amusements and sports on Sundays are inconsistent with the Christian Sabbath. Private forms of entertainment and recreation are more problematical because many regard them as a form of relaxation. However, the fact that the Sabbath rest is to be distinguished from self-centred pleasure has convinced many Christians that they should abstain from what the Shorter Catechism calls 'worldly recreations' (Answer 61) on the Lord's day in order to demonstrate in a special way their love for God and for their neighbour."
 
Originally posted by just_grace
Originally posted by Ivan
What constitues breaking the sabbath?

1. Going out to eat after church?
2. Going to a movie on Sunday?
3. Doing work around the house on Sunday?
4. Cooking at home on Sunday?
5. Participating in games and sports on Sunday?
6. Watching sports or about anything on TV on Sunday?

I remember a recent discussion about professional athletes playing on Sunday and the shining example of Eric Liddel. However, is our viewing of these same athletes on a Sunday as wrong as their playing on Sunday?

:worms:

Sabbath breaking? If you try to keep one law you have to keep them all. Its was for freedom that Christ set us free, we are not to get back into bondage again.

I guess that it would be ok then for me to exercise my freedom by murdering a few people, committing idolatry, and stealing from a bank. After all, if I try and keep any one of those laws, I have to keep them all...
 
Originally posted by fredtgreco
Originally posted by just_grace
Originally posted by Ivan
What constitues breaking the sabbath?

1. Going out to eat after church?
2. Going to a movie on Sunday?
3. Doing work around the house on Sunday?
4. Cooking at home on Sunday?
5. Participating in games and sports on Sunday?
6. Watching sports or about anything on TV on Sunday?

I remember a recent discussion about professional athletes playing on Sunday and the shining example of Eric Liddel. However, is our viewing of these same athletes on a Sunday as wrong as their playing on Sunday?

:worms:

Sabbath breaking? If you try to keep one law you have to keep them all. Its was for freedom that Christ set us free, we are not to get back into bondage again.

I guess that it would be ok then for me to exercise my freedom by murdering a few people, committing idolatry, and stealing from a bank. After all, if I try and keep any one of those laws, I have to keep them all...

I think I'll covet my neighbor's car today. What say?! ;)
 
Originally posted by Ivan
Originally posted by just_grace
Originally posted by Ivan
What constitutes breaking the sabbath?

1. Going out to eat after church?
2. Going to a movie on Sunday?
3. Doing work around the house on Sunday?
4. Cooking at home on Sunday?
5. Participating in games and sports on Sunday?
6. Watching sports or about anything on TV on Sunday?

I remember a recent discussion about professional athletes playing on Sunday and the shining example of Eric Liddel. However, is our viewing of these same athletes on a Sunday as wrong as their playing on Sunday?

:worms:

Sabbath breaking? If you try to keep one law you have to keep them all. Its was for freedom that Christ set us free, we are not to get back into bondage again.

I think that if you are one who has come to this board as a "seeker", I could understand your statement. However, if you are one who comes to this board as a reader of the Puritans and Calvin...well, you don't understand what they wrote or you haven't read much.

So which am I?
All I know is that I am a Christian walking through this life. And my only teacher is the Holy Spirit and He does not condemn me if I as you say, break the Sabbath.

I think of John and Peter the first time they were dragged before the Jews, 'as for us, you must judge for yourselves whether we should listen to God or to men'

I do not want to appear rude or discourteous. I guess I am not an educated man as you seem to judge education but lighten up and show a bit of grace.

After the meeting when the apostles heard that God had poured His Grace on the non Jews...what were the recommendations?

"Therefore, I have decided that we should not trouble these gentiles who are turning to God."

and...

"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to place on you any burden but these essential requirements: to keep away from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from anything strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you avoid these things, you will prosper. Goodbye."

No mention of "and make sure you keep the Sabbath"


I like this board because of the word Reformed, since I became a Christian a lot of church groups have disillusioned me. For me I seek holiness and love as taught in the Bible.

From what I see in the Bible Paul spent a lot of his time combating the Jewish Christians who were trying to impose regulations on the non Jewish churches, his letters seem to be full of it.

[Edited on 1-22-2005 by just_grace]
 
Originally posted by just_grace
[I like this board because of the word Reformed

Kind sir, it is more than a word.

Grace and peace to you, my dear brother in Christ.

Would you mind answering Scott's question, please?
 
Originally posted by Scott Bushey
David,
Are the commandments of God still in effect?

With regards to what is wrong, like murder etc, of course, but as to the Sabbath I think no when it comes to non Jews who became Christians. Even the Gentiles have a law in their hearts Paul said telling them things that were wrong etc, but the Sabbath was totally alien to them and I believe that in Christ who is our Rest we are free from it.

I have to go out, I am moving house soon and have things to do, I promise I will study this more thoroughly and inquire into and see if I can see what you state.

Ciao
 
Originally posted by Ivan
Originally posted by just_grace
[I like this board because of the word Reformed

Kind sir, it is more than a word.

Grace and peace to you, my dear brother in Christ.

Would you mind answering Scott's question, please?

What a rude man you are sir.

I have just answered it and if I was busy with something else what is that to you. Learn some patience sir.

David
 
Originally posted by just_grace
I have to go out, I am moving house soon and have things to do, I promise I will study this more thoroughly and inquire into and see if I can see what you state.

God bless and best wishes on the move.
 
Fair enough David. Do a search on the board for the word "sabbath". There is a wealth of information here as ithas been discussed until the cows 'came' home.
 
What a rude man you are sir.

I saw no rudeness there. I think if you would look at the timing of the posts you would see that the post was probably being written while you were sending yours. That happens to me. Makes me feel kind of weird and comes across as though I wasn't even paying attention.

I have just answered it and if I was busy with something else what is that to you. Learn some patience sir.

Now that comes across to me as rude. Such is the power of words. But see my comments above.

I trust that your move will go well and I look forward to more posts from you soon.
 
[<snip>
*Note of interest: Josephus reports that the Essenes would not even move their bowels on the sabbath.

<snip>

Ummm.... my husband just chimed in that sometimes he thought it was more work to hold it.....:lol:
 
Originally posted by just_grace
Originally posted by Ivan
Originally posted by just_grace
[I like this board because of the word Reformed

Kind sir, it is more than a word.

Grace and peace to you, my dear brother in Christ.

Would you mind answering Scott's question, please?

What a rude man you are sir.

I have just answered it and if I was busy with something else what is that to you. Learn some patience sir.

David

Sorry I upset you, David.
 
Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
<snip>

I agree that true Sabbath-keeping is not a list of do's and don'ts, but is exemplified in Augustine's famous saying, "Love God as do as thou wilt."

However, we can summarize the Ten Commandments as "Love God and love your neighbor" and still recognize that it is precisely a list of do's and don'ts. We need to think of God's law on both levels (the practical and the abstract).

We ought to examine ourselves as to what is so important that it would hinder our communion with the Lord on His holy day. The balance between Pharisaical legalism and antinomian looseness is a fine line to walk, but walk it we must. That is what it means to be holy in a fallen world.

[Edited on 17-1-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]

Very eloquently stated :amen:
 
Maxdetail posted an interesting reply on the first page of this three-page thread and nobody has made a response. The way I understand this, the instructions for keeping the Sabbath were commanded before the giving of the law (Exodus 16:22-23). It is also the only day of the week that He gave a name (the Sabbath of the LORD) and it is the only day that He sanctified (Gen 2:3).

I am under the belief that the reason the Lord's Sabbath changed from the 7th day to the 1st day (Sunday) is because of Christ's resurrection on Sunday. Is this the crux of the change imposed by Constantine?... or am I way off? Where does God change His Sabbath in the scripture? I know this sounds a little weird, I'm just trying to figure this whole thing out. Please help.
 
Interesting topic.

I guess given the specifications of a Sabbath-breaker in this thread I would be one becasue my job at a grocery store requires me to work on Sundays occasionaly. I have tried to limit the amount of Sundays I work; my boss knowns I do not like working them and I am therefore the last one who will be scheduled. However that still does not eleminate my working them totally.

The one thing I can say about working on Sundays is that it effects you throughout the week. Whenever I miss Sunday fellowship it leaves my spiraturaly dry for the whole week. On my Sundays off then I do not squander them; Church at my church in the morning, Church at a Reformed Church in the afternoon and wether or not I was working or not back to my church in the evening for a Bible study.

Bryan
SDG
 
Hey, Matt

The Sabbath wasn't kept on Saturday in Old Testament times. The way they kept their calendar in line with the seasons was to add a few days at different times of the year and simply not count them. So there isn't any corollary between our Sunday or Saturday and the old practices. The Sabbath is as much public as private, and the actual day doen't matter as much as the general agreement of the particular culture as to which day the seventh will be.
 
Originally posted by Canadian Baptist
I'm sorry guys, but this thread seems just ludicrous to me. I know, I know you are trying to find out how to keep a commandment of God. But if it is applicable today, why does nobody agree on how to keep it when the scripture is quite clear in it's instructions? Where in the world, pray tell, does the scripture say or imply that the first day of the week is the SABBATH of God? The first day is not the seventh day. God gave specific commands that relate to Sabbath keeping throughout the Old Testament and there is no indication that He commanded a "one in seven principle" where we could scrap the parts we didn't like from the OT scriptures. God clearly stated "the SEVENTH day (Saturday) to be kept. So how do we get from there to keeping it on Sunday (using Sola Scriptura?)
If we do arbitrarily decide to bring it forward for today, do we then spiritualize or bend the instructions given by God for the Sabbath?... no kindling fires (heating your house or cooking), no carrying any burden out of your houses (a garbage bag maybe?), no gathering sticks (or socks for the hamper?) . Do these all become "works of necessity" in our day so that we can disregard the commands of God. What about death for breaking the Sabbath, why isn't that obeyed today? Or how do the Inuit Christians keep Sabbath from "sundown to sundown" when the sun doesn't actually set for 6 months in the Canadian North? Nehemiah said that a few profaning the Sabbath in Jerusalem, by buying and selling goods, brought God's judgment on all of the covenant people of Israel. So do we exercise church discipline on Sabbath breakers because we fear God's judgment on the church? If not, why not... if we are to be consistent Sabbath keepers. My point is that we cannot bring the shadow of Old Covenant Sabbath keeping into the light and rest of the New Covenant. I know of no one who is consistent and brings all of the Sabbaths sanctions with it into the New Covenant today anyway, yet they wrangle about football games or how many trips to the fridge will add up to a Sabbath days journey, or the old saint who was ashamed for whittling a stick on the Sabbath, or whatever else. I am not a Sabbatarian. I believe Colossians 2:16-17.
It is interesting how Calvin thunders against Sabbatarianism (Institutes II.VIII.28-34.) He promotes the Lords Day and not the Jewish Sabbath when he says "For, because it was expedient to overthrow superstition, the day sacred to the Jews was set aside; because it was necessary to maintain decorum, order, and peace in the church, another [day] was appointed for that purpose." II.VIII.33
Hope I didn't come across as disrespectful, just some musings out loud.

I think you have raised some very good points, brother. I would be keen to see someone interact with them.
 
Originally posted by Ivan
Originally posted by just_grace
Originally posted by Ivan
Originally posted by just_grace
[I like this board because of the word Reformed

Kind sir, it is more than a word.

Grace and peace to you, my dear brother in Christ.

Would you mind answering Scott's question, please?

What a rude man you are sir.

I have just answered it and if I was busy with something else what is that to you. Learn some patience sir.

David

Sorry I upset you, David.

Sorry if I reacted wrongly, I love the Truth but just lack the ability at the moment to express it.
 
?

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
David,
Are the commandments of God still in effect?

Do you not know Scott?. Why ask me, it's there in the Bible, it seems a lot of my replies were deleted..etc...but then again thats software I suppose.

Not a good night to contest.

Bless you Scott.
 
Originally posted by just_grace
Originally posted by Scott Bushey
David,
So the 10 commandments are abrogated?

So your telling me I should not eat pork even though I fully understand that its ok for me to do so!

[Edited on 1-22-2005 by just_grace]

Joseph,
Please explain why you answered my question with this statement.
 
Gosh, this is such a confusing topic.... one which I have many questions. I can see clearly where Christ has necessitated a change in the law (the priesthood and animal sacrifices). I can find nothing that shows a change in the times (Sabbaths and Holy days).

I am under the belief that God instituted a lunar calendar... we have revoked that method. His days are counted sundown to sundown (that´s thrown out also). The Lord's Sabbath has also been changed (we threw that out with the resurrection). The Holy days are also gone (i.e. Easter has replaced Passover).

Now, I'm no biblical scholar but it seems to me that there is in fact a reason for all this change... is it meant to be? Is it of God?... or is it of man?... or is it of the devil? (maybe man and the devil). I have an idea.... but I really don't know.
 
There is a good deal of confusion about the "day of rest" in our day and in our churches. I can't fully explain that, but I will say that I think it starts with uncertainty about where to start in the Bible on the subject. From there we can add: confusion about the relation of the OT to the NT; hermeneutical questions about what OT (and even NT) history teaches; the place (and basis) of morality in the NT age; and these are just elements that come to mind quickly.

The puritan attitude toward the moral law was founded on the principle that God gave Adam his moral requirements as part of his constitution. Whatever God added by way of positive command became part of the revealed will of God. The puritans reckoned that God had evidently made a moral issue of communing with him; this need then being part of man's moral constitution. Establishing a set time for this communion was God's prerogative, and must of necessity be of positive character. That time was established on the first full day after man was created. It was as if, after making all the land animals, and crowning his creation with man, God said to him, "There you are. Here are your general orders. The day is over; get some rest; we shall commence the first thing tomorrow with worship."

The first thing man was to do was to rest with God, strengthen himself for his labors. We won't dwell upon the specifics. Just note that from the beginning, the puritans recognized that God had made this a perpetual, positive and moral commandment.

The moral nature of the command was made incontrovertably plain to the puritans by the inclusion/ restatement of the sabbath rest commandment in the decalog. If the command is nothing but an OT ceremonial ordinance, what is it doing there in the moral foundation of Israelite ethics, society and religion?

That the command was of continuing significance was also plain by the amount of time Jesus spent correcting men's view of it in his ministry. If it was no longer to be of importance, why the lingering emphasis? In one or two places Jesus pointedly indicates that certain ceremonies are passing away. Not so with the Sabbath.

And, if the command to keep it was exclusively moral (without positive direction as to how and when) how came the NT believers to so quickly change their practise, even before the gospels conclude? Thus was recognized the positive nature had changed.
 
Originally posted by Texas Aggie
Gosh, this is such a confusing topic.... one which I have many questions. I can see clearly where Christ has necessitated a change in the law (the priesthood and animal sacrifices). I can find nothing that shows a change in the times (Sabbaths and Holy days).

I am under the belief that God instituted a lunar calendar... we have revoked that method. His days are counted sundown to sundown (that´s thrown out also). The Lord's Sabbath has also been changed (we threw that out with the resurrection). The Holy days are also gone (i.e. Easter has replaced Passover).

Now, I'm no biblical scholar but it seems to me that there is in fact a reason for all this change... is it meant to be? Is it of God?... or is it of man?... or is it of the devil? (maybe man and the devil). I have an idea.... but I really don't know.

Matt,

If you are interested, I would recommend the following resources for study:

When Does the Sabbath Begin? Morning or Evening? by Greg Price

Sabbath, The Day Changed: The Sabbath Preserved by A.A. Hodge

A Puritan's Mind Lord's Day Page (many more good Reformed Puritan Sabbath studies)
 
Why is Sunday called the Sabbath? Did the early Church call Sunday the Sabbath?
 
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