Sad, sick, and down

[ReformedWretch]

Anyone else ever feel this way when you hear other's beliefs, doctrine (or lack of it) and thoughts in regard to Christianity? Boy I do. I start to talk to people (many palces other than here) and at first it's to share, learn, and friendly debate some issues. Then when I start to see that it appears that a majority of so called believers believe stuff that is so "out there" I start to get bummed. It gets to the point sometimes that I get depressed even!

Anyone else get this way?

How do you avoid feeling this way? Should I not go anywhere other than here? Is it wrong to try and reach those who are in error?

Ugh....

 

[humble_soul]

I am right there with you. We have a duty to tell people the truth in love. It's up to the Holy Spirit to convince them. It is depressing that people calling themselves Christians have such warped ideas about God these days. However, don't let that overwhelm you. Remember, his purposes will not be thwarted.

 

[ReformedWretch]

I hate to call it a lack of faith, but maybe it is? I know God is soverign and all and that who He calls will answer, but sometimes it feels like everyone has their line off the hook or something!

 

[humble_soul]

I understand exactly where you are coming from. I have these same thoughts and feeligs myself sometimes. The only thing that comforts me is knowing that God is sovereign.

The people who are hardest to convert are the people who believe they are ALREADY converted (Those who think: I ALREADY HAVE Jesus!) - I say this knowing that God is the one who does the converting. I wonder sometimes: Are these cases where god hardened their hearts?

Ofcourse, then it is awesome when god brings those folks to him.

I suggest to keep at it and not lose heart. You are doing the right thing by caring for those around you and teaching them to love the law. Don't forget to pray for them non-stop. The dead are only resurrected by god's hand.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Mark 8:17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?
Mark 8:18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

This is not to imply we should not pray or fulfill the commission; we should. It is commanded. The power of God and His promise in regards to bringing His sheep to Himself is our hope, our confidence. In this, frustration is alleviated.

 

[FrozenChosen]

Adam, I'm there with you too. I'm glad to be going back to college, but I will miss the fellowship that I've had with intelligent Christians from my church. At college, I will again have to wade through religious slop I'm sure. I praise God that he has used this break from school to teach me so much (having used PB as a major tool as well), and I pray for strength to stand.

 

[SmokingFlax]

Of course! (I get that way)...

One thing that has (in the last couple of years) tended to help me from giving in to the downer outlook has been my exposure to the Biblical arguments for the "eschatological optimism" of the post-millenial viewpoint. It is pretty much entirely optimistic when one considers the ramifications of this viewpoint taken to their conclusion. (i.e. the Gospel will overcome -no matter what the present climate appears to be).

Acts 2:29-36 ...sit thou on my right hand, [b:4a2b9db8d8]until[/b:4a2b9db8d8] I make thy foes thy footstool.

Prior to this, I was so engrossed with the fatalistic pessimism of dispensational-premillenialism that I found myself (more often than not) resigned to the idea that our culture is doomed so why bother (?).

It was my long standing fascination with end-times stuff that led me to start looking at what other ages of Christians taught about it. In particular, I was intrigued to understand how it was that the Reformers were able to overcome the stranglehold of the Roman Catholic Church in their day. Aside from simplistic answers, where did they get the spiritual strength to overcome what I knew they believed to be the [b:4a2b9db8d8]literal [/b:4a2b9db8d8]Anti-Christ (the Papacy)? I was under the false impression (gained from reading the likes of Lindsey and Jeffries, et al.) that the Church was ALWAYS pre-mil. When I later found out that the Reformers (and Puritans) were largely post-mil (or a-mil) I could then make sense of the backbone and far-sighted battle strategy that is evident in their legacy. I think that there is a GREAT DEAL that can be learned from this in our day.

The fact is that every pre-mil person I meet is either looking for
A) the rapture
B) the great tribulation
or
C) the Anti-Christ

The idea that the Church could be [b:4a2b9db8d8]victorious[/b:4a2b9db8d8] against the gates of hell in what turns out to be yet just another period of egregious heresy and apostacy (like so many times in the past) is (usually) not even considered or looked at with great suspicion (as I just experienced this week when I hinted at it in the presence of one who is clearly resigned to the defeatest pre-mil view).

One of the great inconsistencies and/or ironies that I've come to see in the pre-mil camp is that while they are always talking and praying about "revival" they usually haven't considered what course of action should be taken by the Church IF God should grant TRUE revival in America. It is obvious that a large body of truly revived and reforming believers could not for long be contented to be subjected to the many injustices and blasphemies of our current secularist governmental laws and its many encroachments on true liberty. There would be unavoidable friction and (in my opinion) persecution as always happens when the Church becomes relevant and stands up to challenge the pretended "sovereignty" of the state.

It is once again in this instance where the puritans and reformers would be a huge help in that they have already dealt with the many frictions between Church and state on a national level and (Thank God) left a wealth of principled, well thought out and deeply Biblically based writings on the subject.

Anyways...I'm rambling about some of the things that I've been thinking on for some time.

To make it short: I've come to believe that certain forms of the pre-mil position end up putting a dark cloud over practically every other aspect the Christian walk.

Ian Murray has a decent book explaining Puritan Eschatology entitled [u:4a2b9db8d8]The Puritan Hope - Revival and the Interpretation of Prophecy[/u:4a2b9db8d8]. It is, in my opinion, a very thought provoking book on these matters.

Have a great day.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Where can I find that book!?

 

[Hiskid84]

[quote:27a1767ddd="houseparent"]Anyone else ever feel this way when you hear other's beliefs, doctrine (or lack of it) and thoughts in regard to Christianity? Boy I do. I start to talk to people (many palces other than here) and at first it's to share, learn, and friendly debate some issues. Then when I start to see that it appears that a majority of so called believers believe stuff that is so "out there" I start to get bummed. It gets to the point sometimes that I get depressed even!

Anyone else get this way?

How do you avoid feeling this way? Should I not go anywhere other than here? Is it wrong to try and reach those who are in error?

Ugh....[/quote:27a1767ddd]

Do I get this way? [i:27a1767ddd]Yes[/i:27a1767ddd]. And then I get mad. Mad that so many people are going to come along and read the garbage being posted and mistake it for the truth.

How do I avoid feeling this way? [i:27a1767ddd]Avoid those places.[/i:27a1767ddd]

Is it wrong to try and reach those who are in error? [i:27a1767ddd]I don't think so. At least not in the context you're talking about[/i:27a1767ddd]. I believe the desire must be a gift. My husband frequents a forum that has little evidence of the fruit of the Spirit and much evidence of fruit[i:27a1767ddd]cake[/i:27a1767ddd]. :yes: I tried to join in but find what people believe so unbelievable I had to join the Puritanboard for sanity's sake. I have so much to learn that I don't feel I have much to offer there. Or here, for that matter. But oh, how I admire my patient husband for going there day after day, answering questions with the Word of God and attempting to point them to the truth. Who knows when the truth may pierce someone's heart? So here's a question for you, houseparent:

If even one post that you post is used by God to destroy error in one life, is it worth it?

We don't always get to see the results of God's handiwork but I hope you find comfort in the possibilities.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Yes Karen, it is worth it! Thanks for the encouragement.

My problem is I have NO ONE (my wife some I suppose) who I can talk to personally who believes as I do. Everyone I know is off base doctrinely. That may be hard to believe but it's true.

 

[SmokingFlax]

Adam.

Well, I got my copy of the Murray book at my favorite local Mardel Christian bookstore but I don't know if they have those up there. It is a Banner of Truth book so I'd bet that they would have it at cvbb.com -they've got a million puritan type books that I want to get.

'Hope that helps.

 

[Ianterrell]

This week I've been drawn into an argument with a Pelagian. And then today on the street I stumbled across a gay-dispensationalist-quasiuniversalist-racist-arminian. Phew. If it wasn't bad enough that he believed all that garbage, he actually kept calling me stupid and dumb the whole time for being a Calvinist. And he was hitting on my friend. :flaming:

 

[ReformedWretch]

[quote:c82d5baad4]a gay-dispensationalist-quasiuniversalist-racist-arminian.[/quote:c82d5baad4]

Ah ha ha ha ha ha!

Just the thought of that cheered me up and made me laugh.

How silly is that?

And thanks Christopher, I will check that site out.

 

[SmokingFlax]

"I stumbled across a gay-dispensationalist-quasiuniversalist-racist-arminian. Phew."

I'm getting a real good laugh right now...
I'm just picturing this scene like something from the Night of the Living Dead or something. Hilarious!

 

[calgal]

I am trying to be kind to HyperArminian Calvinist hating biddies. According to these dear sweet things, ANY Doctrinal discussion is too much for their wittle brains and is "better left to the pastors" (sounds a bit Catholic to me....) Although thanks to these folks, I am realizing Bruce Wilkinson is a heretic :flaming: (the horrid exposition he does of 1 Corinthians 11:27-28 is about as blasphemous as it gets: he claims Paul's admonition is to come to the Lord's Table sober but orderly? Not a word about sin? uzzled: ) and these folks just LOVE his work.

THANK YOU for this site and the sanity provided herein. My brain cells and I appreciate all of you!

 

[Hiskid84]

[quote:c7addecd54="houseparent"]Everyone I know is off base doctrinely. That may be hard to believe but it's true.[/quote:c7addecd54]

Ummm...when you say [i:c7addecd54]everyone[/i:c7addecd54], are you including people here as well?

Sorry. I just had to ask.

I do understand where you are coming from, at least to a certain degree. I live in a very black and white world also and it's really hard to understand why people can't see the truth. And sometimes, when I'm especially blessed, I am reminded of where I used to be. And when I remember that by His grace alone I even know what I do about truth, I find that in the ensuing praise that pours from my heart I feel a new sense of compassion for those caught up in the lies. You know...that old, "There, but for the grace of God, go I" thing? I'm easily disappointed in people. And wrapped up in my frustration of them wanting to cling to their pet doctrines is that sick feeling you get when you see our wonderful Lord so misrepresented. Seeing our holy God portrayed as a God who loves us by winking at our sin and who is at the mercy of man's will to save, longing and pleading with us to choose Him....
:flaming: ARG!

Yup, Adam...I think that "sad, sick and down" just about covers it. But isn't it good to know that we can't change anyone anymore than we can save anyone? All we can do is speak the truth in love, pray that the Holy Spirit will open eyes and rest in knowing that God will use it to His glory as He sees fit. Amen?


Thankful to be,
Hiskid

 

[ReformedWretch]

Karen, of course I didn't mean here! I would be thrilled if the only "issues" I had with other Christians were end times, baptism, and the like! How refreshing that would be!

I actually have a Christian couple that no longer speaks to me because I had told someone I wished they came to a bible study I was running. That's all I said! Pretty simple. Now they are "angry"?

Other so-called Christians I know have NO desire to be holy (not that any of us ever can be really) none...they live as they want and call me judgmental!

I fear that I whine about this too much, but I can't tell you how down I am at times over these issues. It doesn't help that the kids I work with and love are ALL lost. They respect my wife and I and we have good relationships with them, but they live 100% selfishly 100% of the time.

Our adopted daughter is a sweet girl over all who was "saved" at a church camp years ago (before we even knew her) but she lives a typical college girl life style (just imagine as I don't have the heart to discuss it and I HOPE my worst fears are not true).

My work place claims to be a "Christian" home but they are extremely, EXTREMLY liberal. They tolerate me because my wife and I do such a good job with our girls, but they think I am a religious kook insisting that my way is the only way (more like Jesus' way).

I try HARD to stay faithful. I try hard to just rest in faith in Christ. I KNOW those who He calls will answer. I just need some kind of support from those around me. I suppose I know ONE man who is doctrinally sound but he is our pastor and so busy because it is not a paid position so he has a full time job.

My mother is very sound, but she lives hours away and really, while a WONDERFUL lady has no strong desire to evangelize as I do.

THANK GOD for this place because I was at my wits end before coming here! I was kicked off of "Rapture Ready" because I spoke out in regard to holy living and we beginning to think the entire Christian community had lost its way!

Thanks for listening and trying to comfort me all! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!

 

[FrozenChosen]

[quote:dabfb21cee="Ianterrell"]This week I've been drawn into an argument with a Pelagian. And then today on the street I stumbled across a gay-dispensationalist-quasiuniversalist-racist-arminian. Phew. If it wasn't bad enough that he believed all that garbage, he actually kept calling me stupid and dumb the whole time for being a Calvinist. And he was hitting on my friend. :flaming:[/quote:dabfb21cee]

Do I need to come up to NYC with my baseball bat and help you out?