rbcbob
Puritan Board Graduate
I am unfamiliar with opera and symphony. Black Sabbath, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, etc..... I know all too well.
Separation from the world
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I am unfamiliar with opera and symphony. Black Sabbath, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, etc..... I know all too well.
jayce475
Puritan Board Freshman
I guess I'm the "legalistic" one around here since I touched on lifestyles, so allow me to explain myself a bit. God tells us to labour and work, so work in itself is not sinful. But we do it to the glory of God. Don't see how appreciating God's creation can impinge on any of the ten commandments, so that sounds mighty good. Watching sports is not sinful in itself, just as how most other forms of entertainment are not sinful in themselves, though they open us up to opportunities to start sinning. We need to do them to the glory of God, and if we are not able to, then why are we doing it? I personally find that idolatry of sports teams can creep in easily when watching sports, so I'm quitting it. God has laid down ten commandments for us to keep and we need to follow all of them in spirit, applying them to our deeds, thoughts and words. Might be useful to have a look at the Westminster Shorter Catechism with regards to the ten commandments, so that we can have a better understanding of God's standards, rather than trying to use our own subjective standards to determine what is sinful and carnal.
bouletheou
Puritan Board Freshman
Bob,
OK. Fair answer.
The question I was trying to get at was the question of form and content. For instance, much classical music glorifies paganism and sexual immorality, as do many operas. Even the ones that do not are often "God-free" in their content. At least some famous composers were homosexuals and adulterers. Yet almost nobody would criticize a classical music afficionado for worldliness. Country music is also full of songs about fornication and drunkenness. What theology they espouse is often atrocious. Few would criticize those listeners for worldliness.
I take your point about worldliness and music, and I'm not sure I disagree with it in substance. I was one who responded on the "favorite concerts" post. Two of the three shows I mentioned were by those who made no professions of faith at all. One (U2) was by a group in which several of the members had made a profession of faith, but in my limited knowledge, don't seem to be bearing fruit. Was I being worldly when I watched these? Well, for one of them (Van Halen) I was not yet a believer. For the second one (Mellencamp) I was a believer, and appreciated JCM's music precisely because it didn't offend my faith overtly. For the third one (U2) I was in a severely backslidden state and was stoned out of my gourd, but I don't think I can blame Bono and the Edge for that. I came to the show stoned. Had I not been in a backslidden state, I do not think I would have found anything there which would automatically draw me away from God.
I've all but quit listening to music except for a little classical music, not because I'm so holy, but because I just don't enjoy it anymore and it's a waste of my time. Ditto for TV watching. Classical music is nice because I can attend to it if I choose, but it doesn't demand my attention like other forms of music do. Thus I am free to do other things unhindered as well. The only time I listen to rock is when I'm on the elliptical machine at the gym.
I absolutely agree with the one who posted that we are in a major case of musical idolatry in this country. It has assumed an importance far out of proportion with its true value. I am convinced that there is more going on here than meets the eye, and that it is forming our souls in ways which are irrational, poorly understood, and detrimental to godliness.
OK. Fair answer.
The question I was trying to get at was the question of form and content. For instance, much classical music glorifies paganism and sexual immorality, as do many operas. Even the ones that do not are often "God-free" in their content. At least some famous composers were homosexuals and adulterers. Yet almost nobody would criticize a classical music afficionado for worldliness. Country music is also full of songs about fornication and drunkenness. What theology they espouse is often atrocious. Few would criticize those listeners for worldliness.
I take your point about worldliness and music, and I'm not sure I disagree with it in substance. I was one who responded on the "favorite concerts" post. Two of the three shows I mentioned were by those who made no professions of faith at all. One (U2) was by a group in which several of the members had made a profession of faith, but in my limited knowledge, don't seem to be bearing fruit. Was I being worldly when I watched these? Well, for one of them (Van Halen) I was not yet a believer. For the second one (Mellencamp) I was a believer, and appreciated JCM's music precisely because it didn't offend my faith overtly. For the third one (U2) I was in a severely backslidden state and was stoned out of my gourd, but I don't think I can blame Bono and the Edge for that. I came to the show stoned. Had I not been in a backslidden state, I do not think I would have found anything there which would automatically draw me away from God.
I've all but quit listening to music except for a little classical music, not because I'm so holy, but because I just don't enjoy it anymore and it's a waste of my time. Ditto for TV watching. Classical music is nice because I can attend to it if I choose, but it doesn't demand my attention like other forms of music do. Thus I am free to do other things unhindered as well. The only time I listen to rock is when I'm on the elliptical machine at the gym.
I absolutely agree with the one who posted that we are in a major case of musical idolatry in this country. It has assumed an importance far out of proportion with its true value. I am convinced that there is more going on here than meets the eye, and that it is forming our souls in ways which are irrational, poorly understood, and detrimental to godliness.
Tripel
Puritan Board Senior
Is there purpose in attending the symphony? I'd say there absolutely is. God created music, and music doesn't have to be "Christian" in order to be good. Music can reflect truth and beauty without having "Christian" lyrics. I think we run into a lot of problems if we draw a line between music that is Christian and music that is secular. Instead, we should draw a line between what is good/true/beautiful and that which is not. There is a lot of poor "Christian" music out there and there is a lot of beautiful "secular" music out there.
---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------
So why isn't the same true for rock music?
---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 AM ----------
Can you say the same about every other genre of "secular" music?
jayce475
Puritan Board Freshman
Yes I actually agree with you. Music in itself can be appreciated. It is the secular lyrics that accompany secular songs that I absolutely abhor. And yes indeed we absolutely must practise discernment when listening to Christian songs, even hymns and spirituals. I am absolutely clueless about classical music and such, and have never really been exposed to them. The secular music that I know of goes more along the lines of Nirvana and Greenday.
Yes it is true for rock music. However, secular rock music is also overtly associated with sin and we ought to practise biblical separation from such. Non-Christians seeing us attend rock concerts or movie theatres may think that we endorse whatever nonsense is coming out of the singer's mouth or is being churned out by Hollywood, so we ought to not to be found in places of the world. And once again, if there is anyone around here who can start shedding some light on how we can listen to Black Sabbath to the glory of God, please do.
As I've said, it's more about the lyrics than the music. However, I am also not convinced about music being neutral. Then again, I have absolutely no knowledge about music, so whatever music draws me closer to God is acceptable to me while that which prevents me from worshipping God in my thoughts is cast aside.
rbcbob
Puritan Board Graduate
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The apostle himself was familiar with sports and used them as analogies in scripture:
Rock music is collectively as a genre (exceptions are rare) philosophically worldly, not only ungodly but anti-God.
Sympathy for the Devil, Imagine, Let's spend the night together, etc. etc. etc.
The apostle himself was familiar with sports and used them as analogies in scripture:
.
Rock music is collectively as a genre (exceptions are rare) philosophically worldly, not only ungodly but anti-God.
Sympathy for the Devil, Imagine, Let's spend the night together, etc. etc. etc.
Just to add a bit of background, I'm linking a blog post by Andrew Meyers pointing out that the Puritans were fond of music, just careful about its use in worship:
Virginia is for Huguenots: Art and Music in Puritan Worship
Virginia is for Huguenots: Art and Music in Puritan Worship
ericfromcowtown
Puritan Board Sophomore
Can you please elaborate on your claim that rock music is collectively as a genre anti-God? As mentioned by previous posters, one can easily find a couple of worldly country-and-western song titles, yet people tend to be hesitant to label country-and-western as "collectively anti-God." The same can be said of movie theatres, board games, etc.. etc.. It seems like you're painting with a pretty broad brush.
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I think it would be safe to say that any music which has lyrics that speak of the breaking of any of the commandments of God or make light of sin would be characterized as anti-God (whether rock, country, jazz, blues, etc.). I think that the problem arises when we realize that if we use this criteria, there is hardly anything left besides instrumental. This is unfortunate but is the state of our day and age. As far as the Puritans, it is true that they were fond of music but I doubt you would have seen William Perkins giving approval to some of the ungodliness that is considered music today.
Bern
Puritan Board Freshman
When people object to the slating of rock music, it flies in the face of all common sense. Its obvious that as far as musical genres go, rock/ metal by far has the edge on all the others as the most anti -God style. Its very origins are rebellion against authority, and certainly heavy rock in 99% of cases is blatantly glorifying sin. I know this is a seperate issue, but even the way the music sounds affects the way the listener behaves. I used to always kid myself that the style of the music couldn't affect me... only the words.... but I soon realised that was incorrect when I gave it up. As I've said before, excuses because we love it too much.
jayce475
Puritan Board Freshman
I was wrecking my brains to think of some song that actually contains lyrics without romance, sex, blasphemy or rebellion. This was the best I could come up with. It's probably accurately called a mish-mesh of pop/rock/rap.
[video=youtube;Glny4jSciVI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glny4jSciVI[/video]
We Are The World
There comes a time
When we head a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
And it's time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all
We can't go on
Pretending day by day
That someone, somewhere will soon make a change
We are all a part of
God's great big family
And the truth, you know love is all we need
[Chorus]
We are the world
We are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me
Send them your heart
So they'll know that someone cares
And their lives will be stronger and free
As God has shown us by turning stone to bread
So we all must lend a helping hand
When you're down and out
There seems no hope at all
But if you just believe
There's no way we can fall
Well, well, well, well, let us realize
That a change will only come
When we stand together as one
I was virtually in tears by the end of watching that video, not because the song is all that touching, but because I'm realized what such a song has led to.
"We're saving our own lives"? There's absolutely nothing wrong with helping with disaster efforts, but if you have seen the magazine that I recently received from Hillsongs church, you realized what songs like these have done. It's pure social gospel, repeated over and over again on the pages. The emotions brought out by such songs only reinforces it. Sin was mentioned a grand total of one time in that whole magazine. Perhaps some might feel that listening to such a song may not cause people to embrace the social gospel, but I know that it has for many of those around me.
"We are all a part of God's great big family"? This line has probably contributed to many an ecumenist or universalist. "How can you say Jesus is the only way? Aren't we all God's people?"
"And the truth, you know love is all we need". No! God's grace and mercy is all we need. God's truth is all we need. Not this sappy, sentimental and mawkish love that places temporal concerns over and above all things.
For those of you who claim that that you can indulge in such a song without being drawn away by such worldly philosophies, merely taking out the good parts about helping others and appreciating the musical forms, good on ya. But for myself, I find that nigh impossible and am greatly grieved by the souls that may end up in eternal torment just because of such songs.
kvanlaan
Puritan Board Doctor
You know, I am still guilty of listening to music I know I should not as a follower of Christ. But I used to be much more so.
I was a big fan of Megadeth and Iron Maiden as well as Einsturzende Neubauten and NIN. I was as deep in the mosh pit as anyone else when NIN and Soundgarden played together at Molson Park in Barrie (Marilyn Manson, an unknown, opened for them) - it was a blast. BUT it was no place for a Christian, unless you were handing out tracts full time. This is not a personal conviction, this is not a binding of others' conscience with mine, this is a testimony of a former crack addict telling you that crack is bad, bad enough to screw you up from the inside out and turn you from the God you profess to love. I can still sing, word for word, "The Number of the Beast" from Iron Maiden's 1982 album. How about "22 Acacia Avenue", another track off that album? Or "Children of the Damned"? Read the lyrics, then redeem that, if you can. Better yet, don't touch it - it is of the devil, I promise you that.
That it is a problem for me, but not for you, is not an issue of Christian liberty/conviction. Why is it that when a former addict/prostitute/Hell's Angel tells you the horror of addiction/life on the street/violence as a way of life, we never reply that "well, that was a problem for you, but it is not for me, so I'll just go back to my ganja - it's not like it's crystal meth!" "I am not attracted to or aroused by the strippers dancing in front of me, so it is well within the bounds of my liberty as a Christian to be there!"
I don't listen to these songs anymore. But for some reason, I cannot remember every word of #159 in our hymnal "O Lord of Hosts, How Lovely" - I love that song; my heart is fainting, longing, His sacred courts to see. But I don't know it by heart. What is written on my heart? "Number of the Beast", a song I haven't heard in years. Every word, every note, every beat of the drum, every thump of the bass line. I have read the bio books, that "Number of the Beast" is a song about a dream (nightmare) that one of the band members had, nothing more. That these guys are just a bunch of good fellas, that Bruce Dickinson is just a short air-raid siren of an Englishman, and that there's no malice intended on their part at all. But even though that may be 100% true, in the same way that Joel Osteen is a tool of Satan, these 'unknowing' men are as well. Run from it, shun it with a holy fervor; it is evil.
I simply cannot abide the idea that the same mouth that sings, at full volume, "six, six, six, the number of the beast, six, six, six, the one for you and me" can say that this is a harmless song in a harmless repertoire. I know I keep coming back to that one song, but it is only the foulest rotting carcass in the abattoir, it is not an exception.
I was a big fan of Megadeth and Iron Maiden as well as Einsturzende Neubauten and NIN. I was as deep in the mosh pit as anyone else when NIN and Soundgarden played together at Molson Park in Barrie (Marilyn Manson, an unknown, opened for them) - it was a blast. BUT it was no place for a Christian, unless you were handing out tracts full time. This is not a personal conviction, this is not a binding of others' conscience with mine, this is a testimony of a former crack addict telling you that crack is bad, bad enough to screw you up from the inside out and turn you from the God you profess to love. I can still sing, word for word, "The Number of the Beast" from Iron Maiden's 1982 album. How about "22 Acacia Avenue", another track off that album? Or "Children of the Damned"? Read the lyrics, then redeem that, if you can. Better yet, don't touch it - it is of the devil, I promise you that.
That it is a problem for me, but not for you, is not an issue of Christian liberty/conviction. Why is it that when a former addict/prostitute/Hell's Angel tells you the horror of addiction/life on the street/violence as a way of life, we never reply that "well, that was a problem for you, but it is not for me, so I'll just go back to my ganja - it's not like it's crystal meth!" "I am not attracted to or aroused by the strippers dancing in front of me, so it is well within the bounds of my liberty as a Christian to be there!"
I don't listen to these songs anymore. But for some reason, I cannot remember every word of #159 in our hymnal "O Lord of Hosts, How Lovely" - I love that song; my heart is fainting, longing, His sacred courts to see. But I don't know it by heart. What is written on my heart? "Number of the Beast", a song I haven't heard in years. Every word, every note, every beat of the drum, every thump of the bass line. I have read the bio books, that "Number of the Beast" is a song about a dream (nightmare) that one of the band members had, nothing more. That these guys are just a bunch of good fellas, that Bruce Dickinson is just a short air-raid siren of an Englishman, and that there's no malice intended on their part at all. But even though that may be 100% true, in the same way that Joel Osteen is a tool of Satan, these 'unknowing' men are as well. Run from it, shun it with a holy fervor; it is evil.
I simply cannot abide the idea that the same mouth that sings, at full volume, "six, six, six, the number of the beast, six, six, six, the one for you and me" can say that this is a harmless song in a harmless repertoire. I know I keep coming back to that one song, but it is only the foulest rotting carcass in the abattoir, it is not an exception.
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Christopher88
Puritan Board Sophomore
We have touched Rock, metal. What are your views on Country music?
From a pure entertainment value, what about CCM?
For me some CCM like Newboys is good, but most of it is too teddy bear like for my liking.
From a pure entertainment value, what about CCM?
For me some CCM like Newboys is good, but most of it is too teddy bear like for my liking.
rbcbob
Puritan Board Graduate
I have never followed closely Country music but at my job I have no option but to listen to whatever the crew has blaring on the radio. Because of that I am regularly exposed to Rock, Country, Hip hop, Blues, etc.
As just an occasional listener in that environment I would say that while there are many Country songs that glorify drunkenness, fornication, adultery and the like, there is to my surprise an occasional song that portrays Christianity, family values, and patriotism in a favorable light.
Having grown up listening to country music, the different topics you mention are even found on the same CD.
Track 1: I cheated on my wife
Track 2: I went and got drunk with the boys
Track 3: How wonderful Heaven will be
....
Confessor
Puritan Board Senior
I have constructed a rule for myself that if a song I own has a sinful title, then I mark it as "Untitled," and if a song's lyrics are sinful and discernible (i.e. I can make out the words), then I delete it.
Also, I have noticed some songs whose musical structures promote ungodly affections within me sometimes, so when I am in a particular state of mind or when I have experienced some particular event (e.g. getting a disappointing grade on something), then I will not listen to those songs (e.g. songs which could promote an unrighteous anger or discontentment).
I don't intend to say this sarcastically in the least, but do you all think I am still holding to a pet sin in doing this? I am trying to enjoy music as God's creation while fleeing from sinful lyrics and song styles that can tend to promote wickedness. It seems to me an appropriate balance, but I have deceived myself in the past.
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By the way, one thing I absolutely abhor is videos like the "We Are the World" one. If the music makes us feel a certain way, then the message must be right! Flagrant idolatry very expectantly will sound attractive to undiscerning ears, 2 Cor. 11:14.
Also, I have noticed some songs whose musical structures promote ungodly affections within me sometimes, so when I am in a particular state of mind or when I have experienced some particular event (e.g. getting a disappointing grade on something), then I will not listen to those songs (e.g. songs which could promote an unrighteous anger or discontentment).
I don't intend to say this sarcastically in the least, but do you all think I am still holding to a pet sin in doing this? I am trying to enjoy music as God's creation while fleeing from sinful lyrics and song styles that can tend to promote wickedness. It seems to me an appropriate balance, but I have deceived myself in the past.
-----
By the way, one thing I absolutely abhor is videos like the "We Are the World" one. If the music makes us feel a certain way, then the message must be right! Flagrant idolatry very expectantly will sound attractive to undiscerning ears, 2 Cor. 11:14.
jayce475
Puritan Board Freshman
That sounds mighty sensible.
"Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs." So all who can listen to music and truly appreciate them as God's gift, then that's all good. Perhaps the criteria for determining what are sinful lyrics and what kind of music causes ungodly emotions should be set as high as we can. "1 Cor 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." So, we should "play it safe" to say the least. When I went through the pop/rock cds I collected when I was young, I can scarcely find a song that my new man is able to bear. The lyrics are usually either mawkish, sinful, in support of worldly causes or plain nonsensical. I even have a few Radioheads in my collection, and after listening to the entire album, I just feel really angsty though I haven't managed to catch a word of the lyrics.
When it comes to just the music (less the lyrics), I guess that it does vary much from person to person. Perhaps some might even have adulterous thought due to listening to some symphonies? If they are, they should quit those symphonies. That's on one side of the spectrum, but at the other end, I find it rather incredulous that any can claim to be drawn closer to God after listening to heavy metal. I've never actually been really into metal or heavy rock, but soft-rock songs like "Yellow", "Superman (It's Not Easy)", "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" and "Wake Me Up When September Ends" have been the hardest for me to give up as I really really like them. Even if I try my best to disregard the lyrics, the music in itself just takes over my entire being and wants it to do its bidding. I don't know why and I don't know how, but I just find myself being drawn further away from God every time I succumb to the temptation of listening to these songs. Wonder if anyone here can offer any suggestions as to why that is so.
EricP
Puritan Board Freshman
Since the main subject of this thread is separation from the world (albeit with musical emphasis), it can never hurt to read the Puritans--for example, Thomas Brooks' Precious Remedies against Satan's Devices; anyone who could write: "The devil knows that corrupt nature has a seed-plot for all sin, which being drawn forth and watered by some sinful occasion, is soon set a-work to the producing of death and destruction. God will not remove the temptation, until we remove the occasion to temptation" and "It is impossible for that man to get the conquest of sin—who plays and sports with the occasions of sin. God will not remove the temptation to sin, except you turn from the occasion of sin. It is a just and righteous thing with God, that he should fall into the pit, who will adventure to dance upon the brink of the pit, and that he should be a slave to sin, that will not flee from the occasions of sin" (see remedy #7) seemed to know a good deal about both the world of the 17th and the 21st centuries--the musical notes and lyrics may have changed, but the temptation and sin are the same!
What about Jazz? Same kind of culture of drinking, sex, and rebellion produced it. Are we then to say that all jazz is worldly? How about opera? As I recall, many operas are about pagan myths, sex, and rebellion. What about the works of Shakespeare? I do recall some incident of the Puritans banning his plays during the Commonwealth.
Is there a way for Christians to appreciate the common grace present in these art forms while still condemning the falsehoods present in them?
Is there a way for Christians to appreciate the common grace present in these art forms while still condemning the falsehoods present in them?
buggy
Puritan Board Freshman
My attitude towards music is more of an "indifferent" one. If I encounter a song that is particularly good, I would like it regardless of the genre. I do not care about what is the "latest" musical trends out there. I especially appreciate songs that talk about society-at-large, be it injustice, suffering, or moments of joy. Music is the expression of Man, and allows us to understand the sentiments of the people, and inspires me to remember the Word of God to make a difference in this society, for the sake of Christ.
While I try not to appreciate songs that celebrate sin (but with the temptation of the flesh), doesn't it show us the situations of society? Many popular songs today bemoan the over-commercialization of our lifestyle, the rise of hatred when Man persecutes others, and the tremendous lack of leadership and example in our men today. Sometimes the celebrities even bemoan their stress through their songs - beneath the golden mask is a life of excessive work, taxation, and lack of privacy. Without the grace of God, isn't it surprising that many celebrities today turn to drugs, sexual immorality, or alcohol abuse to drown themselves in their sorrows and stress?
Are we, the Church, ready to follow Christ, and have compassion for these people, without a shepherd? To provide food and drink where there is hunger, hope where there is desperation, and most importantly the keys to Heaven - the Gospel? Culture, as we know today, will be depraved and will continue to decay unless we plead God to make a difference and we do the duties He commanded us. We should be in this world, not of this world, and influence this world in a Godward direction, we being the salt of the earth.
While I try not to appreciate songs that celebrate sin (but with the temptation of the flesh), doesn't it show us the situations of society? Many popular songs today bemoan the over-commercialization of our lifestyle, the rise of hatred when Man persecutes others, and the tremendous lack of leadership and example in our men today. Sometimes the celebrities even bemoan their stress through their songs - beneath the golden mask is a life of excessive work, taxation, and lack of privacy. Without the grace of God, isn't it surprising that many celebrities today turn to drugs, sexual immorality, or alcohol abuse to drown themselves in their sorrows and stress?
Are we, the Church, ready to follow Christ, and have compassion for these people, without a shepherd? To provide food and drink where there is hunger, hope where there is desperation, and most importantly the keys to Heaven - the Gospel? Culture, as we know today, will be depraved and will continue to decay unless we plead God to make a difference and we do the duties He commanded us. We should be in this world, not of this world, and influence this world in a Godward direction, we being the salt of the earth.
jayce475
Puritan Board Freshman
In your opinion, would "We Are The World" be an okay song? Israel were never meant to go out of the way to help other nations, but the fatherless and widows and strangers within the nation. Not that Israel were forbidden from rendering any help at all to other nations, but that's not their main purpose. Likewise, it is not the purpose of the local church to go out of the way to help people out there. However, we must spare no efforts in helping those within the church. Helping others is good to do, and not forbidden by scriptures, but if we at any point in time make it the main point of the church and think that people can be in any way drawn closer to God due to these good works, we err. We evangelize as the apostles did, and that is to preach the gospel alone. If at any point we start mixing things up, we get this abhorrent concoction called the social gospel.
As previously mentioned, there is a world of difference between engaging songs with God's glory in view and simply reveling in them, just as how committing sin in a wilful manner is worlds apart from falling into sins.
CatechumenPatrick
Puritan Board Freshman
Just a heads up, Christ the Center aka Reformed Forum just had a helpful audio conversation on thinking biblically about these and related topics: Reformed Forum - Reformed Theology Podcasts, Videos, Blogs and More - The show is titled "A Theology of Culture."
With all due respect, it is not a good point. Rock has little if anything in common with a symphony or an opera. The foundation of rock music is the beat from pagan and tribal roots. There is absolutely nothing in rock music that is glorifying to God. And in response to other posts, legalism refers to the thought that one can be saved by following rules--it has nothing to do with the redeemed being obedient to their Savior.
Enjoyment from music can never be equivalent to what is derived from nature or good food or (even) sport. It may be created by God in the primary sense but each individual piece of music, just as with literature and film and media in general, comes also from the mind of a sinful human being, and is going to be coloured by that person's world-view and spiritual state. that applies also to classical music, even the purely instrumental (think of thr Rite of Spring, or Night on the Bare Mountain) and to opera it applies in spades.
I also absolutely agree with the one who posted,
I also absolutely agree with the one who posted,
JBaldwin
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Based on this logic, would we not be able to enjoy nature because of the curse or good food because it is prepared by fallen men?
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