The problems with Sunday School

[BuddyOfDavidClarkson]

A long standing issue with me is the fact that the church has soundly embraced Sunday School. What is wrong with it?

1) The church thinks it is its job to educate the children when it is the parents - Deut 6:7

2) It seperates the family during worship - Ezra 10:1 and Col 3:20 (a lot more could be cited)

3) Most churches are so fanatical about Sunday School that it has shortened the main service (c'mon, you know it's true).

4) It adds a TON to the building cost of a church having to build a bunch of separate classrooms.

5) There is not one shread of bible support for it.

 

[LadyFlynt]

This should get interesting.

Welcome, sir!

 

[Arch2k]

A long standing issue with me is the fact that the church has soundly embraced Sunday School. What is wrong with it?

1) The church thinks it is its job to educate the children when it is the parents - Deut 6:7

2) It seperates the family during worship - Ezra 10:1 and Col 3:20 (a lot more could be cited)

3) Most churches are so fanatical about Sunday School that it has shortened the main service (c'mon, you know it's true).

4) It adds a TON to the building cost of a church having to build a bunch of separate classrooms.

5) There is not one shread of bible support for it.

I used to see along your lines, but have come around to a view that embraces a teaching time apart from worship in the church. Let me try to answer a couple of your objections if I may.

1) There is no doubt that it is the parent's responsibility to teach their children, but isn't taking them to church a major part of a child's education? Do your children sit under the preaching of the word? If so, they (as well as you) are being taught by the church, and this by God's command.

Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven."

2) It MAY seperate the family, but not for worship. A teaching time may include worship elements (i.e. reading of the word), but is not worship per se. It is a time of bible instruction. This is the perfect time for catechism teaching (which is what our church does). The church helps to raise the children to a mature understanding of doctrine to the point that they are able to take communion, and then they are grafted in with the adult teaching class.

3) I completely agree with you here, but this abuse is no arguement against an appropriate use of SS.

4) Cost is not a necessary factor. One needs not fancy rooms or equipment in order to have a time of teaching during the lord's day.

5) This could be said of fellowship meals, and other things that occur on the Sabbath. If one where to make these things obligatory, I would agree whole-heartedly. However, as long as the activities fall withing the law in regards to Sabbath-keeping, we must refrain from calling them sin.

I am interested to hear from others on this topic.

 

[Herald]

I will be more than pleased to enter this discussion but I like the first answers provided by Jeff. I'll wait until they are commented on.

 

[Larry Hughes]

I'd agree with #3 being the second biggest problem. Other wise there's nothing wrong with a teaching venue. The real question is, and where most of the real frustration arises I suspect, is there a real teaching venue going on in a SS and that depends highly upon the church. I've seen good sunday schools at bad churches, especially near a seminary town like Louisville. I've seen pathetic sunday schools that I would'nt attend any more than a Benny Hinn production in decent churches. It can be highly variable and bad SS can leave a bad taste in one's mouth. The frustration is understandable.

Teaching is the parents responsibility but the parents themselves must be taught. Differing households are motivated differently, its not a competition but a communication of the faith to the next generation. That will vary from home to home given people's other vocations and abilities.

 

[LadyFlynt]

A long standing issue with me is the fact that the church has soundly embraced Sunday School. What is wrong with it?

1) The church thinks it is its job to educate the children when it is the parents - Deut 6:7

Agree and Disagree. It IS primarily the parents' responsibility. The children should learn to sit with their mother and father and pay attention in service, stand when others stand, sing when others sing (if able), etc. But the children should learn to listen to those over them. Unfortunately...go to #2.

2) It seperates the family during worship - Ezra 10:1 and Col 3:20 (a lot more could be cited)

Agreed! I have a problem with separation for ANY reason. I've had Sunday School teachers abuse the privilege of being a Sunday School teacher, playtime occur, churches that were supposed to be "conservative reformed" have lessons using the Christmass tree, Easter eggs, etc as their object lessons...then have to go home and "reeducate" my children. Children's church is a complete no-no for us. Second Sunday School? Yep. And WHEN then are the children to benefit from the WORSHIP of God in the assembly? My understanding is that they should be there from birth.

3) Most churches are so fanatical about Sunday School that it has shortened the main service (c'mon, you know it's true).

I don't believe that is the only reason churches shorten services...or even a primary reason. But it is disgusting.

4) It adds a TON to the building cost of a church having to build a bunch of separate classrooms.

True.

5) There is not one shread of bible support for it.

Well...those churches will claim the suchlike of "Joshua was the first Youth Minister" and he took the young of Israel and departed. But I think they need a history lesson on the special circumstances and what "young" meant back then.

 

[Arch2k]

Colleen,

I completely agree with your sentiments on "children's church".

 

[toddpedlar]

A long standing issue with me is the fact that the church has soundly embraced Sunday School. What is wrong with it?

1) The church thinks it is its job to educate the children when it is the parents - Deut 6:7

This is a non-issue. The elders of the church are to equip the saints. Why is Deut 6:7 a prohibition against anyone but parents instructing the kids in ANYTHING?

2) It seperates the family during worship - Ezra 10:1 and Col 3:20 (a lot more could be cited)

If you're referring to "Sunday School" that occurs during corporate worship, then I'm with you there. That practice is, to me, right out. If you're referring to separate classes for adults and children during a set-aside hour for Bible instruction, then I don't follow you. It seems if this is your objection, then you're saying no more than what you said in #1.

3) Most churches are so fanatical about Sunday School that it has shortened the main service (c'mon, you know it's true).

Honestly I don't think this has anything to do with today's "hour-long" worship services... Look elsewhere (to the lack of conviction of most "pastors" to preach the word, and most church-goers willingness to sit through an hour of preaching). It may correlate well with Sunday School "fanaticism", but the link between them is not causal - rather they derive from a similar lack of conviction.

4) It adds a TON to the building cost of a church having to build a bunch of separate classrooms.

As already said, not necessarily.

5) There is not one shread of bible support for it.

No support for Biblical instruction of the flock, eh? That's news to me.

 

[LadyFlynt]

I believe this issue could go farther. Why did Sunday School come about? And then, knowing the history, should the church be bringing in children without bringing in the entire family? (basically, Sunday School replaces in home instruction for most ppl and was it's original intent, to instruct those that received no at home instruction)

There was one gent on here whose church held an afternoon Sunday School for bussed in children where it would be totally separate from the worship, etc. Truely a teaching tiime for the "unchurched".

 

[toddpedlar]

I believe this issue could go farther. Why did Sunday School come about? And then, knowing the history, should the church be bringing in children without bringing in the entire family? (basically, Sunday School replaces in home instruction for most ppl and was it's original intent, to instruct those that received no at home instruction)

There was one gent on here whose church held an afternoon Sunday School for bussed in children where it would be totally separate from the worship, etc. Truely a teaching tiime for the "unchurched".

Understood that SS replaces home instruction for most people (in most churches), however, that fact doesn't militate against the concept of having instruction for all. We have Bible instruction at all levels, from 0 to 99, and explicitly is not to replace anything done at home - all families are regularly exhorted to be worshipping daily at home, and to be instructing the children in the faith.

The fact that SS replaces home instruction for many is not an argument for not doing it - abuse of something doesn't enter into a discussion of its merits or demerits.

If SS is seen as something "for children only", then there is indeed a problem. I agree in such a context that it can be seen as "getting my kids what Bible teaching they need". While that's the case for many, it's certainly not the case for all churches who practice SS.

 

[LadyFlynt]

Todd, one other question. What about families that want to keep their children with them during this hour. Should they just skip Sunday School or should they take their children with them? Many churches have issues with families that wish to stay together and Sunday School is often treated as mandatory.

 

[toddpedlar]

Todd, one other question. What about families that want to keep their children with them during this hour. Should they just skip Sunday School or should they take their children with them? Many churches have issues with families that wish to stay together and Sunday School is often treated as mandatory.

In our context, it would be fine for all to be together - but I know not many are probably in that situation. There should never be an objection to families staying together for additional instruction, but alas this is probably not often the case.

I've never heard of a case of Sunday School being treated as "mandatory", but my church experience (in terms of breadth of kind of church) is fairly limited.

 

[BuddyOfDavidClarkson]

I've been at churches where they really wanted the kids separated from us during the services; of course, I completely ignored them and had the kids sit down right next to us.

Todd, one other question. What about families that want to keep their children with them during this hour. Should they just skip Sunday School or should they take their children with them? Many churches have issues with families that wish to stay together and Sunday School is often treated as mandatory.