The Things You Learn on "Jeopardy!"

[bookslover]

For instance: by Hebrew word count, Jeremiah is the longest book in the Old Testament.

I would think that Psalms would be longer, taking all 150 of them together. But, what do I know?

 

[Polanus1561]

Luke wrote more stuff than Paul.

 

[earl40]

For instance: by Hebrew word count, Jeremiah is the longest book in the Old Testament.

I would think that Psalms would be longer, taking all 150 of them together. But, what do I know?

I missed it last night because of what you said.

 

[chuckd]

Luke wrote more stuff than Paul.

Traditionally

 

[RamistThomist]

Funniest moment on Jeopardy

 

[Wretched Man]

Luke wrote more stuff than Paul.

There’s some speculation (which I am persuaded by) that John’s Gospel, epistles, and Revelation were not written by the Apostle John (son of Zebedee), but by another John, known as John the Elder who was the “disciple whom Jesus loved”.

If that’s the case, then only a small portion of the NT would have been written by the original 12 Apostles (Matthew only).

 

[Jack K]

There’s some speculation (which I am persuaded by) that John’s Gospel, epistles, and Revelation were not written by the Apostle John (son of Zebedee), but by another John, known as John the Elder who was the “disciple whom Jesus loved”.

If that’s the case, then only a small portion of the NT would have been written by the original 12 Apostles (Matthew only).

This would also assume the epistles attributed to Peter are not actually from the apostle.

As for Jeremiah, I should have been on Jeopardy! For some reason, the bit of Bible trivia about Jeremiah being the longest book by word count was planted in my head as a child, right along with with info about the shortest book, book with the most chapters, and verse with the fewest words. Sadly, I think I learned those unimportant facts before I learned what Jeremiah, 3 John, or Psalm 119 were about, or before I learned the context surrounding "Jesus wept."

 

[Wretched Man]

This would also assume the epistles attributed to Peter are not actually from the apostle.

Whooops... yes you're correct. Peter would obviously be another Apostle. I had a mind blank earlier today as I was quickly responding on my phone.

 

[bookslover]

There’s some speculation (which I am persuaded by) that John’s Gospel, epistles, and Revelation were not written by the Apostle John (son of Zebedee), but by another John, known as John the Elder who was the “disciple whom Jesus loved”.

If that’s the case, then only a small portion of the NT would have been written by the original 12 Apostles (Matthew only).

Speculation by liberals, I'm betting.

 

[Wretched Man]

Speculation by liberals, I'm betting.

No. And I’m not a liberal.

 

[Scottish Presbyterian]

There’s some speculation (which I am persuaded by) that John’s Gospel, epistles, and Revelation were not written by the Apostle John (son of Zebedee), but by another John, known as John the Elder who was the “disciple whom Jesus loved”.

If that’s the case, then only a small portion of the NT would have been written by the original 12 Apostles (Matthew only).

Besides the point about Peter already picked up on, the disciple whom Jesus loved had to have been one of the 12. The last supper, for example, seems to have only been Jesus with the 12 disciples, and the beloved disciple was there. We know the names of the 12 disciples, and as far as I recall only one was called John (son of Zebedee).

Out of interest, what is it about this theory that you find persuasive?

 

[Wretched Man]

Besides the point about Peter already picked up on, the disciple whom Jesus loved had to have been one of the 12. The last supper, for example, seems to have only been Jesus with the 12 disciples, and the beloved disciple was there. We know the names of the 12 disciples, and as far as I recall only one was called John (son of Zebedee).

Out of interest, what is it about this theory that you find persuasive?

Who Wrote the Fourth Gospel?

John’s gospel is not a book I have taught often. Without giving it much thought, I have usually assumed that the “John” of its title must be the apostle John, the son of Zebedee, one of the inner c…

www.wilrens.org

 

[149-deleted]

Who Wrote the Fourth Gospel?

John’s gospel is not a book I have taught often. Without giving it much thought, I have usually assumed that the “John” of its title must be the apostle John, the son of Zebedee, one of the inner c…

www.wilrens.org

I see the author largely follows Bauckham's arguments for identifying the author of the fourth gospel as a "John the Elder" distinct from the apostle John. A good response is "The Disciple Jesus Loved": Witness, Author, Apostle — A Response to Richard Bauckham's Jesus and the Eyewitnesses by Köstenberger and Stout [available online].

@Scottish Presbyterian makes a good argument about the upper room (which is also mentioned in the response linked to). Another against someone other than John the son of Zebedee authoring the Gospel is, ibid. p. 23:

One final point speaks decisively against Bauckham’s thesis, in our view. Why, if John the apostle is not the author, is he left unmentioned (apart from the oblique reference in John 21:2) in the Fourth Gospel? For an apostle who, according to the unanimous testimony of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, played such a key role in Jesus’ ministry and was a member of the inner circle of the Twelve not even to be named or featured in John’s narrative at all is more than remarkable; and then to believe that the “disciple Jesus loved” is instead another John who is virtually unknown otherwise and not a member of the Twelve is just too much to swallow. Bauckham has to come up with an adequate reason for the conspicuous alleged silence about John the apostle in the Fourth Gospel, and he has not done so.

 

[Wretched Man]

I see the author largely follows Bauckham's arguments for identifying the author of the fourth gospel as a "John the Elder" distinct from the apostle John. A good response is "The Disciple Jesus Loved": Witness, Author, Apostle — A Response to Richard Bauckham's Jesus and the Eyewitnesses by Köstenberger and Stout [available online].

@Scottish Presbyterian makes a good argument about the upper room (which is also mentioned in the response linked to). Another against someone other than John the son of Zebedee authoring the Gospel is, ibid. p. 23:

There is a perfectly good (hypothetical) reason why this John the elder was not mentioned in the other Gospels. Protective anonymity.

Recall that Jesus tasked him with caring for his mother. This (as asserted by Bauckham) was likely a man and priest living in Jerusalem who would be surrounded by Jews wanting to kill Jesus’s family and followers.

And this task of caring for his mother is yet another reason why I am persuaded the writer was not John the apostle. Consider in Matthew’s account, the mother of the sons of Zebedee was at the cross. How awkward would it have been for Jesus to turn to John the apostle and tell him his mother is now Jesus’s mother when his biological mother is standing right there?