Grove City College V. Patrick Henry College

[Santos]

I am wondering if anyone on PB has any experience with either of these two colleges? If so, could you please share you experience/thoughts on these colleges?
They appear to be two of the most affordable, Christian, conservative colleges in the U.S. currently.

 

[J.L. Allen]

I can't speak to either college personally, but some of the youth at the church I'm a member of have gone to these schools. Respectively, they had positive experiences.

I'm curious what others will say on the subject.

 

[JD]

I've had friends who attended both schools.

I once attended a wedding full of Patrick Henry graduates and I was very impressed by the caliber of person the school seems to produce. They were all well-read, thoughtful, and engaging people. They were also all very good swing dancers, which was unexpected and intimidating. I guess that's a big thing at PHC. The stories they were telling about their experiences at school painted a great picture of a strong and rigorous academic community. There seems to be a "Patrick Henry man" which is usually a good sign for a university. Patrick Henry has more of a political bent, preparing students for careers in government and legal fields For what it's worth. It is also tiny, compared with Grove. Like 400 students. Patrick Henry is objectively a more conservative enviroment than Grove City, even if the respective institutions are comparable in their goals and ideals. It is non-denominational in name but de facto Baptist, as I understand it. There's a whole book about life at PHC called "God's Harvard." I've never read it and I do not think the author is a Christian but that might help give an idea of what life is like there.

Grove City has a lot of good things going. I attended Geneva College which is an athletic rival of Grove City. GCC is academically rigorous. Many of our friends attended Grove City so were were over there a lot. It's a larger school with a more diverse student body. Athletics play a big part of the student life at GCC. Grove City has its own version of greek life with many fraternities and sororities on campus. Carl Trueman and T. David Gordon both teach there, and there are more conservative reformed and presbyterian churches nearby than there will be at Patrick Henry. GCC is officially non-denominational I think, but when I was at Geneva I was under the impression that it was associated with the PCA to give you a sense of the general theological landscape. There's been some controversy at Grove City in the past year or so about Critical Race Theory and intersectionality being possibly taught in certain classes and I think there may have been an LGBTQ+ student group or something? From my view the college has handled criticisms about those issues with integrity and takes seriously the accusations. There was an internal investigation I think. I haven't heard much about it recently so I don't know where things stand.

Neither school takes federal aid, so you cannot use federal student loans at either university. This allows the institutions to remain as conservative as they are. Grove City offers a lot of the "normal" college experience while being instutionally conservative. Patrick Henry probably offers more of an "ivy league" experience, albeit diminutively.

 

[greenbaggins]

I have relatives who have gone to both. My twin brother went to Grove City, and my nephew went to Patrick Henry. Both are excellent schools academically, and both are known for being conservative. I would recommend Grove City for any STEM major, and Patrick Henry for the humanities (outside of what Trueman and Gordon teach, of course!).

 

[iainduguid]

FYI T.David Gordon is no longer teaching at GCC. But I would continue to recommend it as a good option for academically high-achieving kids. I taught there from 2006-15, and several of our children attended there.

 

[ReformedCuban]

I am currently a student at Grove City College. I would say that being at the College has been a positive experience for me. The academics are rigorous and challenging, and the student body is generally made up of sincere Christians. I believe that almost everyone in the Biblical and Religious Studies department is Presbyterian and Reformed (we have one Anglican who I think is also in the BARS department, but he is mostly in Christian Ministries, which is the other religious degree program that the school offers).

There are many events that make up the culture of campus, including athletics, dance productions ("Orchesis" being the main one, especially in the fall semester, which is coming up pretty soon), musicals, musical concerts produced by the orchestra, lectures by faculty and guest lecturers, and more. There's always something going on, and it's quite exciting.

The school is unofficially non-denominational. However, it was apparently associated with the PCUSA and was supported by the church as late as the 60s. Even though they have since cut ties from the denomination and are currently non-denominational, there is still a Reformed and Reformed-leaning presence on campus. Furthermore, our president, Paul McNulty, was a ruling elder at a church in Northern Virginia (I believe it's the same church that TE David Coffin ministers). Still, I would say that most students here come from a non-denominational background, independent Baptist background.

We do have Greek life on campus. Most people I talk to would say Greek life here is mostly "fake" in the sense that it's not like national Greek organizations, and they are not notoriously into drinking and partying as their national counterparts. I have heard that there are some groups that are not as "sanctified" as a group, to put it one way, but I don't know which fraternities/sororities can be described this way, nor am I interested to know.

Things have settled down somewhat with regard to CRT on campus. There was a professor who was at the center of the issue, but as of last year, he has left the College. Having taken classes from Dr. Trueman, including a class on Charles Taylor and Critical Theory (which I am currently taking), and knowing him personally, I can say that he is not a proponent of CRT. Also, the investigation has produced a report that stated the College's stance against CRT, which can be found here: https://www.gcc.edu/Home/Our-Story/...-the-President/A-Response-to-the-CRT-Petition

Those are some initial thoughts about the College. I might provide some more thoughts later once my work load clears up a bit.

 

[Jake]

One quick thought -- I don't know why you are looking or for whom, but I am a graduate of a similar, small Christian liberal arts college. One concern I would add to the list is to make sure there is a good degree program. If you're looking at a small school, you'll have much less options in terms of majors, so the availability of degree programs should have a big impact on where you go when looking at small schools that doesn't matter as much when looking at larger institutions. My alma mater has a lot of degrees that don't prepare you for much directly besides graduate school, which is fine if that's what you want, but many young people are thinking about majors like nursing or engineering that that you can get a job with more easily after graduating.

 

[jwithnell]

Patrick Henry College is just up the road from me and we have had students at our church including one, who 20 years later, is an elder. As others have noted, the school is particularly strong in the humanities. Students frequently go into internships at "think tanks" and government jobs or go on to law school and the intelligence community. The school has a strong presence locally in music, particularly in the home schooling community. My encounters with students and staff are uniformly positive.

The school is in an interesting location from a reformed perspective. We have four solid OPC churches in northern Virginia and just across the border in Maryland -- one is just a few miles from Patrick Henry and is pastored by a PB member. You haven't heard "A Mighty Fortress" until you've heard it belted out by the four churches joining together.

 

[Santos]

Thank you all for your informative responses. They have given me a lot to consider.

I have a son who is getting ready to graduate in December from Texas A&M University with an Electrical Systems Engineering degree. It has been a mostly good experience; however, I feel like the worldview that he left home with is a little compromised and I have 3 more to send to college in the next 6 years or so and I want to have a solid plan in place if we determine not to send them to A&M. Especially if A&M continues to drift from a heavily conservative to a more left leaning university.

There are several good, reformed churches in College Station, but the student body do not appear to be frequenting them.
So, my son has surrounded himself with a diverse group of friends, not necessarily a bad thing in itself, that very few if any are Christians.
And this is the problem.

My youngest son is now 15 years old and is a freshman in high school. He loves the Lord and has been a strong leader not only amongst his immediate friend group, but also throughout his school. He will most likely graduate in the top 10 in his class as he excels in all of his classes, all of which are weighted, and extracurricular activities, many of which are academic competitions. He wants to most likely be a lawyer, but he is also considering engineering and perhaps ministry.

Considering his interest in law, we have seen that both of these colleges are extremely exceptional in preparing students for law school. In addition to being solid Christian, conservative schools. We plan on sending my son to a leadership camp next summer, Lord willing, at Patrick Henry College.
We are hoping that will give us a good feel for the school.

My two youngest are girls. 8th and 6th graders. They both have a pretty good idea of what they want to do, possibly teaching or medical school, or nutrition, and so Grove City would appear to be a viable option for them both academically and for the potential of all 3 of them to meet future godly mates.

Thanks again for all of your feedback. If you have anymore, especially concerning these potential majors, I would love to hear it. Or if you have any other college recommendations, I would sure be interested in hearing those also.

Thanks!

 

[Santos]

I've had friends who attended both schools.

I once attended a wedding full of Patrick Henry graduates and I was very impressed by the caliber of person the school seems to produce. They were all well-read, thoughtful, and engaging people. They were also all very good swing dancers, which was unexpected and intimidating. I guess that's a big thing at PHC. The stories they were telling about their experiences at school painted a great picture of a strong and rigorous academic community. There seems to be a "Patrick Henry man" which is usually a good sign for a university. Patrick Henry has more of a political bent, preparing students for careers in government and legal fields For what it's worth. It is also tiny, compared with Grove. Like 400 students. Patrick Henry is objectively a more conservative enviroment than Grove City, even if the respective institutions are comparable in their goals and ideals. It is non-denominational in name but de facto Baptist, as I understand it. There's a whole book about life at PHC called "God's Harvard." I've never read it and I do not think the author is a Christian but that might help give an idea of what life is like there.

Grove City has a lot of good things going. I attended Geneva College which is an athletic rival of Grove City. GCC is academically rigorous. Many of our friends attended Grove City so were were over there a lot. It's a larger school with a more diverse student body. Athletics play a big part of the student life at GCC. Grove City has its own version of greek life with many fraternities and sororities on campus. Carl Trueman and T. David Gordon both teach there, and there are more conservative reformed and presbyterian churches nearby than there will be at Patrick Henry. GCC is officially non-denominational I think, but when I was at Geneva I was under the impression that it was associated with the PCA to give you a sense of the general theological landscape. There's been some controversy at Grove City in the past year or so about Critical Race Theory and intersectionality being possibly taught in certain classes and I think there may have been an LGBTQ+ student group or something? From my view the college has handled criticisms about those issues with integrity and takes seriously the accusations. There was an internal investigation I think. I haven't heard much about it recently so I don't know where things stand.

Neither school takes federal aid, so you cannot use federal student loans at either university. This allows the institutions to remain as conservative as they are. Grove City offers a lot of the "normal" college experience while being instutionally conservative. Patrick Henry probably offers more of an "ivy league" experience, albeit diminutively.

This is very informative. Thank you. I first heard about Grove City while listening to a Carl Trueman book. This was why I started researching the school.
It would appear that Grove City has reigned in any CRT shenanigans.

I have heard that Patrick Henry has been given the unofficial moniker of "God's Harvard", which I think is great. But I did not know that they were such good swing dancers. That's a plus. I love the thought of there being a "Patrick Henry Man".

Thank you.

 

[Santos]

I've had friends who attended both schools.

I once attended a wedding full of Patrick Henry graduates and I was very impressed by the caliber of person the school seems to produce. They were all well-read, thoughtful, and engaging people. They were also all very good swing dancers, which was unexpected and intimidating. I guess that's a big thing at PHC. The stories they were telling about their experiences at school painted a great picture of a strong and rigorous academic community. There seems to be a "Patrick Henry man" which is usually a good sign for a university. Patrick Henry has more of a political bent, preparing students for careers in government and legal fields For what it's worth. It is also tiny, compared with Grove. Like 400 students. Patrick Henry is objectively a more conservative enviroment than Grove City, even if the respective institutions are comparable in their goals and ideals. It is non-denominational in name but de facto Baptist, as I understand it. There's a whole book about life at PHC called "God's Harvard." I've never read it and I do not think the author is a Christian but that might help give an idea of what life is like there.

Grove City has a lot of good things going. I attended Geneva College which is an athletic rival of Grove City. GCC is academically rigorous. Many of our friends attended Grove City so were were over there a lot. It's a larger school with a more diverse student body. Athletics play a big part of the student life at GCC. Grove City has its own version of greek life with many fraternities and sororities on campus. Carl Trueman and T. David Gordon both teach there, and there are more conservative reformed and presbyterian churches nearby than there will be at Patrick Henry. GCC is officially non-denominational I think, but when I was at Geneva I was under the impression that it was associated with the PCA to give you a sense of the general theological landscape. There's been some controversy at Grove City in the past year or so about Critical Race Theory and intersectionality being possibly taught in certain classes and I think there may have been an LGBTQ+ student group or something? From my view the college has handled criticisms about those issues with integrity and takes seriously the accusations. There was an internal investigation I think. I haven't heard much about it recently so I don't know where things stand.

Neither school takes federal aid, so you cannot use federal student loans at either university. This allows the institutions to remain as conservative as they are. Grove City offers a lot of the "normal" college experience while being instutionally conservative. Patrick Henry probably offers more of an "ivy league" experience, albeit diminutively.

Would you recommend Geneva College?

 

[JD]

Would you recommend Geneva College?

I wrote at length to another user in this thread. Short answer, yes. Longer answer, it depends on what you want to study. If my kids were picking between the two I'd encourage them to look seriously at Grove. But I wouldn't downplay Geneva, especially if you are looking for a small school atmosphere. The Honors program there was excellent, and my experience with athletics was positive. God blessed and continues to bless me greatly through RPCNA relationships which started through Geneva College. I love the RPCNA.

 

[Santos]

I wrote at length to another user in this thread. Short answer, yes. Longer answer, it depends on what you want to study. If my kids were picking between the two I'd encourage them to look seriously at Grove. But I wouldn't downplay Geneva, especially if you are looking for a small school atmosphere. The Honors program there was excellent, and my experience with athletics was positive. God blessed and continues to bless me greatly through RPCNA relationships which started through Geneva College. I love the RPCNA.

Thank you. Very informative. This looks like a good school, but substantially more than Grove City.

 

[BlockheadedSinner]

GCC is an interesting school in the sense that it has resisted being an "evangelical" school along the lines of a Regent, a Bob Jones or even a Messiah or Calvin. However, it has always striven to be a "conservative" school albeit one which allows for a bit more diversity of thought. This might sound "scary" to some, and I get it -- but I think the college does a good job of striking a balance that gives Christian students all the fellowship and nurturing that they might hope to receive from any "evangelical" school but in an environment where there are far better opportunities for outreach to the portion of the student body that is just there for the "cheap" but extremely solid education (seriously, a better bargain cannot be found in education). In addition, the school has an outstanding religion department (they traditionally called it the religion department although I think they changed to "theology" recently) that has sent many alum to places like WTS, PRTS, etc. It's very hard to find a solid naparc church anywhere in the country that doesn't have GCC representation somewhere within the congregation, and I think that says something. The recent controversy over wokeness had a little bit of substance to it, but I think the end result, after the Board of Trustees Report, etc, is that we can now be very confident that GCC did not head and is not currently heading in the same tragic direction as schools like Messiah, Calvin and Gordon (ironically schools that have held themselves out as "evangelical" over the years). I have close friends in admin currently, and I am pretty comfortable with the direction of the school, with a few quibbles here and there. That said, if I were in the market for a school now, I'd be looking very hard at places like Dordt and Hillsdale in addition to GCC. And maybe even Lancaster Bible College. I would never consider a Messiah, Calvin or a Gordon.

 

[BlockheadedSinner]

Also -- there is a very active Facebook group for parents of students and prospective students. There are some members of faculty, administration, the Board and a few of their wives who are active participants in the group. I highly recommend joining and joining the discussion. It believe it is called "Grove City College Parents" or something very similar.

 

[Santos]

GCC is an interesting school in the sense that it has resisted being an "evangelical" school along the lines of a Regent, a Bob Jones or even a Messiah or Calvin. However, it has always striven to be a "conservative" school albeit one which allows for a bit more diversity of thought. This might sound "scary" to some, and I get it -- but I think the college does a good job of striking a balance that gives Christian students all the fellowship and nurturing that they might hope to receive from any "evangelical" school but in an environment where there are far better opportunities for outreach to the portion of the student body that is just there for the "cheap" but extremely solid education (seriously, a better bargain cannot be found in education). In addition, the school has an outstanding religion department (they traditionally called it the religion department although I think they changed to "theology" recently) that has sent many alum to places like WTS, PRTS, etc. It's very hard to find a solid naparc church anywhere in the country that doesn't have GCC representation somewhere within the congregation, and I think that says something. The recent controversy over wokeness had a little bit of substance to it, but I think the end result, after the Board of Trustees Report, etc, is that we can now be very confident that GCC did not head and is not currently heading in the same tragic direction as schools like Messiah, Calvin and Gordon (ironically schools that have held themselves out as "evangelical" over the years). I have close friends in admin currently, and I am pretty comfortable with the direction of the school, with a few quibbles here and there. That said, if I were in the market for a school now, I'd be looking very hard at places like Dordt and Hillsdale in addition to GCC. And maybe even Lancaster Bible College. I would never consider a Messiah, Calvin or a Gordon.

Thank you very much. This is very helpful!