Sabbath-breaking

[ANT]

Good point Fred. Just like the 7th commandment about adultery, then we must consider our thoughts. We still need to fight with everything in us to remain pure to that one. The other commandments must mean as much to us as well.

It is the LORD'S day. For our rest and benefit, but for His glory!

 

[ReformedWretch]

Guys;

In refrence to one of my posts, isn't it the Lord who must birth these convictions within you? If I pray for the Lord to put a desire or remove a desire from within me in regard to NFL football should I not wait on this conviction rather than act upon it myself in some attempt to please Him?

I have yet to be convicted for watching NFL football. I pray about it frequently but still await the conviction. I can rationalize why I shouldn't watch it, but isn't that works?

 

[Scott Bushey]

Nothing wrong with liking the NFL..........There are games on Saturday and Monday!

Jam 2:18 But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith out of my works.

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

King James I in 1618 published an interesting book called The Book of Sports in which he encouraged sports and other such activities on the Lord's Day. It was in opposition to the Puritan doctrine and practice of keeping the Lord's Day holy. The issue of wanting to play (or watch) sports on the Lord's Day is an ancient one. It's human nature to want to recreate on the Sabbath instead of keeping it holy. However, let the example of Eric Liddell stay in our minds. We can wait for the Lord to give us perfect holy desires some day in the future, or we can obey Him now and abstain from things lawful on other days that are unlawful on His holy day. We can rationalize why sports on the Lord's Day are ok and in doing so open the door to every form of recreation, but that is not what the Lord's Day is about - it is find finding our pleasure in God and not for our own gratification.

 

[blhowes]

Originally posted by fredtgreco
I remind you that I could make the EXACT same argument about every other commandment. Because we can't prefectly keep the 6th commandment, or because there are many detailed questions of applications for it, does that mean that I may murder?

I agree. I see 'keeping the Sabbath' as more of an opportunity to spend time with God than a list of do's and don't.

I agree, but my line of questioning, though, is more about the other six days. Is it wrong to tape the Superbowl so you can observe the Sabbath and then watch the tape at a later time?

[Edited on 1-17-2005 by blhowes]

 

[blhowes]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Nothing wrong with liking the NFL..........There are games on Saturday and Monday!

Jam 2:18 But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith out of my works.

I agree, and that brings me back to my question about taping the Superbowl and watching it later. Does anybody think its any different watching the taped game that's played on the Lord's day and watching games on Saturday or Monday? Either way, its supporting the football players who work on the Lord's day.

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Bob,

To address your question, with today's Tivo and VCR technology, it's possible to partake of things shown on the Lord's Day at another time. I don't see availing oneself of that technology as breaking the Fourth Commandment per se.

I know in my own heart, however, I am prone to justify a lot of areas of recreation on the Lord's Day, not only with respect to finding ways to watch what's on TV, but even in merely thinking about a game or contest being held on the Lord's Day even when I abstain from the TV. We are to keep the Lord's Day holy in our minds as well. We should try to avoid unnecessary conversation or thoughts which would hinder our holy duties on the Lord's Day. This is only possible by God's grace working in us, but nevertheless, it is our duty, whether we have the desire unto holiness or no.

The Church ought to testify against Sabbath-breaking by keeping the Sabbath holy in word, deed and thought. Sabbath-keeping ought to be the practice of Christians just like abstaining from murder and adultery. It is the dispensational antinomian influence in our day which allows society to justly chide the Church for failing to keep the Ten Commandments by thinking of the Fourth as ceremonial, not moral, and optional, not mandatory.

[Edited on 17-1-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]

 

[gwine]

Andrew Meyers It's not possible in our Sabbath-breaking society to abstain from every thing that others do on the Lord's Day which they shouldn't be doing. Mail travels on the Lord's Day (and in some cases is delivered on the Lord's Day); does that mean one shouldn't read the mail that is delivered on Monday?

Bob Howes Does anybody think its any different watching the taped game that's played on the Lord's day and watching games on Saturday or Monday? Either way, its supporting the football players who work on the Lord's day.

What about newspapers? They are a 24/7 operation but if I subscribed to one I don't believe I would ignore the one printed and delivered on the Lord's Day. I would have not problem leaving it alone until Monday, though.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Conversations like this begin to frustrate me. It seems to go from an honest desire to serve and honor the Lord into a laundry list of how to please God by your actions.

 

[gwine]

Originally posted by houseparent
Conversations like this begin to frustrate me. It seems to go from an honest desire to serve and honor the Lord into a laundry list of how to please God by your actions.

Forgive me Adam if I seemed flippant, because that was not the intent.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Oh that reply was not just to you! It was made in general regarding the entire thread.

 

[blhowes]

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
I know in my own heart, however, I am prone to justify a lot of areas of recreation on the Lord's Day, not only with respect to finding ways to watch what's on TV, but even in merely thinking about a game or contest being held on the Lord's Day even when I abstain from the TV. We are to keep the Lord's Day holy in our minds as well. We should try to avoid unnecessary conversation or thoughts which would hinder our holy duties on the Lord's Day. This is only possible by God's grace working in us, but nevertheless, it is our duty, whether we have the desire unto holiness or no.

I think what you're saying is important, especially the part about God's grace controlling our thoughts. I can abstain from doing certain things on the Lord's day because of an honest desire to fellowship with God, but keeping the thoughts focused on God is another story. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. I'm glad one of the fruits of the Spirit is self control.

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Originally posted by houseparent
Guys;

In refrence to one of my posts, isn't it the Lord who must birth these convictions within you? If I pray for the Lord to put a desire or remove a desire from within me in regard to NFL football should I not wait on this conviction rather than act upon it myself in some attempt to please Him?

I have yet to be convicted for watching NFL football. I pray about it frequently but still await the conviction. I can rationalize why I shouldn't watch it, but isn't that works?

God requires obedience. Whether you have the desire or not is not an issue. If you don't have the desire to obey, if you don't have the desire to consecrate the whole day for God, if you don't take delight in the sacred day God has set apart to commune with you and give you rest from your worldly labors but you rather consider it a burden, then you must mourn that you don't feel that conviction. Go to God with it and cry out for more faith and love to delight in God on His holy day.

This is what we must do with any sin. When we know something is wrong, and don't feel strongly about it, it should be a warning shot to us that we are backsliding in heart and our love to God has grown cold. Plus, we should be growing in maturity as we grow in grace. In other words, we ought to become less dependent on emotional motivation and conviction as we grow in our sanctification. Our minds are being renewed so that we may conform to His image. We shouldn't need a prod from God's rod every time we have to obey. Children need that alot. But adults shouldn't need it as often because they are suppose to be "old enough" to know better.

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Does keeping God's law merit His favor? No.

Is it nevertheless our duty to keep God's law? Yes.

What if we don't have the desire to keep God's law? It's still our duty.

What if we live in a society that doesn't keep God's law? It's still our duty.

Can we keep God's law perfectly as Christians? No.

Should we pray for the Holy Spirit to work in us to will and to according to His good pleasure? Yes.

Is Sabbath-keeping in particular a duty of all Christians? Yes.

"Remember the Sabbath-day to keep it holy."

[Edited on 17-1-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Originally posted by blhowes

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
I know in my own heart, however, I am prone to justify a lot of areas of recreation on the Lord's Day, not only with respect to finding ways to watch what's on TV, but even in merely thinking about a game or contest being held on the Lord's Day even when I abstain from the TV. We are to keep the Lord's Day holy in our minds as well. We should try to avoid unnecessary conversation or thoughts which would hinder our holy duties on the Lord's Day. This is only possible by God's grace working in us, but nevertheless, it is our duty, whether we have the desire unto holiness or no.

I think what you're saying is important, especially the part about God's grace controlling our thoughts. I can abstain from doing certain things on the Lord's day because of an honest desire to fellowship with God, but keeping the thoughts focused on God is another story. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. I'm glad one of the fruits of the Spirit is self control.

One can abstain from every wordly work or recreation on the Lord's Day, and still not delight in the Sabbath or find one's rest in God. Our thoughts may be elsewhere. We must yield our whole heart, mind, body and soul to the service of God. And this is possible, only by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[blhowes]

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
One can abstain from every wordly work or recreation on the Lord's Day, and still not delight in the Sabbath or find one's rest in God. Our thoughts may be elsewhere. We must yield our whole heart, mind, body and soul to the service of God. And this is possible, only by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Agreed. Even on the most 'unevenful' of days (as in no Superbowl or whatever) my wandering mind is my biggest enemy.

 

[alwaysreforming]

Andrew wrote:
"The Church ought to testify against Sabbath-breaking by keeping the Sabbath holy in word, deed and thought."

I've been going to church for at least 7 years now (but only the last year or so in Reformed churches), and I don't think I've ever heard a sermon where the congregation was ENCOURAGED to keep the Sabbath holy. There may have been references and expositions of the Sabbath, etc, but certainly no EXHORTATION in any practical sense. In fact, I think if you told the modern day contemporary evangelical that he should honor the Sabbath, he'd look at you in bewilderment.

 

[ReformedWretch]

In fact, I think if you told the modern day contemporary evangelical that he should honor the Sabbath, he'd look at you in bewilderment.

Oh definately!

But my pastor does indeed preach on keeping the Sabath.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Heb 4:1 Therefore, let us fear lest perhaps a promise having been left to enter into His rest, that any of you may seem to come short.
Heb 4:2 For, indeed, we have had the gospel preached to us, even as they also; but the Word did not profit those hearing it, not having been mixed with faith in the ones who heard.
Heb 4:3 For we, the ones believing, enter into the rest, even as He said, "As I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter into My rest," though the works had come into being from the foundation of the world. LXX-Psa. 94:11; MT-Psa. 95:11
Heb 4:4 For He has spoken somewhere about the seventh day this way, "And God rested from all His works in the seventh day." Gen. 2:2
Heb 4:5 And in this again, "They shall not enter into My rest." MT-Psalm 95:11
Heb 4:6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those who formerly had the gospel preached did not enter in on account of disobedience,
Heb 4:7 He again marks out a certain day, saying in David, Today (after so long a time, according as He has said), "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." MT-Psalm 95:7, 8
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua gave them rest, then He would not have afterwards spoken about another day.
Heb 4:9 So, then, there remains a sabbath rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he entering into His rest, he himself also rested from his works, as God had rested from His own. LXX-Psa. 95:11; Gen. 2:2
Heb 4:11 Therefore, let us exert ourselves to enter into that rest, that not anyone fall in the same example of disobedience.
Heb 4:12 For the Word of God is living, and powerfully working, and sharper than every two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of both soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge of the thoughts and intentions of the heart;
Heb 4:13 and there is no creature unrevealed before Him; but all things are naked and laid open to His eyes, with whom is our account.
Heb 4:14 Then having a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast the confession.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest not being able to sympathize with our weaknesses but One having been tried in all respects according to our likeness, apart from sin.
Heb 4:16 Therefore, let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and we may find grace for timely help.

Have you entered in?

 

[Ivan]

Originally posted by houseparent
I have yet to be convicted for watching NFL football. I pray about it frequently but still await the conviction. I can rationalize why I shouldn't watch it, but isn't that works?

Depends on what your rationalization is based on.

 

[Ivan]

So, how many will watch the Super Bowl?

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Originally posted by Ivan
So, how many will watch the Super Bowl?

You know what guys, lets not do another one of these threads. Go back a year and read lasts years thread on this exact topic. If we think of something new than add some more.

 

[Ivan]

Originally posted by puritansailor

Originally posted by Ivan
So, how many will watch the Super Bowl?

You know what guys, lets not do another one of these threads. Go back a year and read lasts years thread on this exact topic. If we think of something new than add some more.

Yikes! Sorry! I was unaware of last year's thread.

 

[fredtgreco]

And here is the link (or at least one of them):

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2988

 

[Ivan]

Got it.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, y'all.

 

[Canadian Baptist]

I'm sorry guys, but this thread seems just ludicrous to me. I know, I know you are trying to find out how to keep a commandment of God. But if it is applicable today, why does nobody agree on how to keep it when the scripture is quite clear in it's instructions? Where in the world, pray tell, does the scripture say or imply that the first day of the week is the SABBATH of God? The first day is not the seventh day. God gave specific commands that relate to Sabbath keeping throughout the Old Testament and there is no indication that He commanded a "one in seven principle" where we could scrap the parts we didn't like from the OT scriptures. God clearly stated "the SEVENTH day (Saturday) to be kept. So how do we get from there to keeping it on Sunday (using Sola Scriptura?)
If we do arbitrarily decide to bring it forward for today, do we then spiritualize or bend the instructions given by God for the Sabbath?... no kindling fires (heating your house or cooking), no carrying any burden out of your houses (a garbage bag maybe?), no gathering sticks (or socks for the hamper?) . Do these all become "works of necessity" in our day so that we can disregard the commands of God. What about death for breaking the Sabbath, why isn't that obeyed today? Or how do the Inuit Christians keep Sabbath from "sundown to sundown" when the sun doesn't actually set for 6 months in the Canadian North? Nehemiah said that a few profaning the Sabbath in Jerusalem, by buying and selling goods, brought God's judgment on all of the covenant people of Israel. So do we exercise church discipline on Sabbath breakers because we fear God's judgment on the church? If not, why not... if we are to be consistent Sabbath keepers. My point is that we cannot bring the shadow of Old Covenant Sabbath keeping into the light and rest of the New Covenant. I know of no one who is consistent and brings all of the Sabbaths sanctions with it into the New Covenant today anyway, yet they wrangle about football games or how many trips to the fridge will add up to a Sabbath days journey, or the old saint who was ashamed for whittling a stick on the Sabbath, or whatever else. I am not a Sabbatarian. I believe Colossians 2:16-17.
It is interesting how Calvin thunders against Sabbatarianism (Institutes II.VIII.28-34.) He promotes the Lords Day and not the Jewish Sabbath when he says "For, because it was expedient to overthrow superstition, the day sacred to the Jews was set aside; because it was necessary to maintain decorum, order, and peace in the church, another [day] was appointed for that purpose." II.VIII.33
Hope I didn't come across as disrespectful, just some musings out loud.
Soli Deo Gloria,
Darrin

 

[just_grace]

Originally posted by Ivan
What constitues breaking the sabbath?

1. Going out to eat after church?
2. Going to a movie on Sunday?
3. Doing work around the house on Sunday?
4. Cooking at home on Sunday?
5. Participating in games and sports on Sunday?
6. Watching sports or about anything on TV on Sunday?

I remember a recent discussion about professional athletes playing on Sunday and the shining example of Eric Liddel. However, is our viewing of these same athletes on a Sunday as wrong as their playing on Sunday?

Sabbath breaking? If you try to keep one law you have to keep them all. Its was for freedom that Christ set us free, we are not to get back into bondage again.

 

[Scott Bushey]

David,
So the 10 commandments are abrogated?

 

[Ivan]

Originally posted by just_grace

Originally posted by Ivan
What constitues breaking the sabbath?

1. Going out to eat after church?
2. Going to a movie on Sunday?
3. Doing work around the house on Sunday?
4. Cooking at home on Sunday?
5. Participating in games and sports on Sunday?
6. Watching sports or about anything on TV on Sunday?

I remember a recent discussion about professional athletes playing on Sunday and the shining example of Eric Liddel. However, is our viewing of these same athletes on a Sunday as wrong as their playing on Sunday?

Sabbath breaking? If you try to keep one law you have to keep them all. Its was for freedom that Christ set us free, we are not to get back into bondage again.

I think that if you are one who has come to this board as a "seeker", I could understand your statement. However, if you are one who comes to this board as a reader of the Puritans and Calvin...well, you don't understand what they wrote or you haven't read much.

 

[Ivan]

Originally posted by Ivan
What constitues breaking the sabbath?

1. Going out to eat after church?
2. Going to a movie on Sunday?
3. Doing work around the house on Sunday?
4. Cooking at home on Sunday?
5. Participating in games and sports on Sunday?
6. Watching sports or about anything on TV on Sunday?

BTW, this "laundry list" was a means of generating discussion.

Here's is my "laundry list" for Sundays:

1. Pray and read the Word on awakening.
2. Prepare myself physically for the day (shower, eat, etc.).
3. Arrive at church for prayer at about 9AM.
4. Teach the Bible to the men from 9:30 to 10:30.
5. Prepare for worship from 10:30 to 10:45.
6. The worship of God from 10:45 to Noon.
7. Meal
8. Rest
9. A long period of studying, reading God's Word and Christian literature, listening to sermons and worshipful music (all of this mixed with time with my family).
10. Attend evening worship
11. Back home to read, reflect on God's grace and mercy, spending time again as I did in number nine listed above.

I do spend part of the day with my brethren here at Puritan Mind.

I attempt as best as I can to have anything I need for my physical needs prepared the day before.

It is truly a day of rest.