TGC and Seminaries

TheBruisedReed

Puritan Board Freshman
The Gospel Coalition is a hot topic these days, and for good reason. I think we all understand it's a huge mixed bag of different contributors, so you're going to get a lot of varying content under one banner. We're talking material ranging from confessional reformed orthodoxy to stuff that's, putting it quite bluntly, junk. This gets really interesting when one checks out the board/council members of TGC. I know it's not reasonable for all of these folks to vet absolutely every single video and article the organization puts out, nor is it fair to say that each and every one of them gives unanimous approval to everything TGC publishes. However, there's some popular names on that board and many of them are involved in reformed seminaries. Is their involvement with TGC cause for concern regarding seminaries?
 
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Hamalas

whippersnapper
I think I understand your desire in asking this question, but I don't think it's particularly helpful as it's framed. We could easily do a lot of damage by trying to paint with a broad brush in reply. In some cases, there may be cause for concern and in many others not. Unless we're going to talk specifics I think this is a question best left to the side.
 

retroGRAD3

Puritan Board Freshman
Unfortunately the majority of what you see coming out of TGC these days is woke and marxist. What I mean is the people that are actively advertised and pushed to the front. I agree there may be some good articles, but they are not the ones being promoted. To me, it appears they are failing in their mission. Though, this was not always the case.
 

TheBruisedReed

Puritan Board Freshman
Unfortunately the majority of what you see coming out of TGC these days is woke and marxist. What I mean is the people that are actively advertised and pushed to the front. I agree there may be some good articles, but they are not the ones being promoted. To me, it appears they are failing in their mission. Though, this was not always the case.
Agreed. They were strong and could be strong again. My own denomination snapped back into confessionalism after flirting with liberalism. [Praise God!] I wonder why the more conservative/solid folks (alluded to in the OP) don't put a stop to the "wokeness" and CRT. I mean, criticism of TGC over these very issues is literally everywhere. Surely the people with the means to snuff out this "wokeism" must see some of the outcry.
 

retroGRAD3

Puritan Board Freshman
Agreed. They were strong and could be strong again. My own denomination snapped back into confessionalism after flirting with liberalism. [Praise God!] I wonder why the more conservative/solid folks (alluded to in the OP) don't put a stop to the "wokeness" and CRT. I mean, criticism of TGC over these very issues is literally everywhere. Surely the people with the means to snuff out this "wokeism" must see some of the outcry.
A good question indeed
 

Jonathco

Puritan Board Freshman
TGC has increasingly concerned me in the last few years; it has become a mixed bag of quasi-reformed writing and then a lot of woke/social justice/Big Eva promotion. I am not saying I would never read anything from TGC if an article was recommended, but I would approach it with caution, given the organization's trending trajectory.

That said, remember that a mixed bag of fruit with one bad one will soon cause rot in the others, if not removed.
 

TheBruisedReed

Puritan Board Freshman
They're exactly what churches need: One more unaccountable parachurch organization with SJWs, FVers, women, etc. informing wider church bodies of their duties, even said bodies who have the Bible and are aware of what their duties are, how they should vet, examine, and subsequently commission their men, and how -when appropriate- they should relate to the outside world, since their sessions and presbyteries are not equipped and enlightened enough to discern from the Bible what they need to get along as Christ's Kingdom in this world. By the way, even seminaries are but to be handmaidens to the presbytery, not rubber stamps of approval.
This is some serious food for thought. Accountability is a dying, antiquated concept in many circles.
 

TheBruisedReed

Puritan Board Freshman
TGC has increasingly concerned me in the last few years; it has become a mixed bag of quasi-reformed writing and then a lot of woke/social justice/Big Eva promotion. I am not saying I would never read anything from TGC if an article was recommended, but I would approach it with caution, given the organization's trending trajectory.

That said, remember that a mixed bag of fruit with one bad one will soon cause rot in the others, if not removed.
Of course. One can still find treasure in that field, but it's getting harder to come by. And your closing line is really the root of my concern. "Wokeness" (and everything else you listed) is likely going to corrupt everything it touches. We all know from the clear testimony of Scripture and our personal experiences (not that those are infallible, but they can help with confirmation) that it is extremely rare for it to trend in the other direction.
 

Wretched Man

Puritan Board Freshman
I think I understand your desire in asking this question, but I don't think it's particularly helpful as it's framed. We could easily do a lot of damage by trying to paint with a broad brush in reply. In some cases, there may be cause for concern and in many others not. Unless we're going to talk specifics I think this is a question best left to the side.
It doesn’t appear Joshua had a problem with the way this question was framed... :stirpot:
 

TheBruisedReed

Puritan Board Freshman
"Following the money" is shedding some light.
It appears that James Riady, a man banned from the United States for influencing American elections with illegal financial contributions (a Soros type of character), is a source of generous funding for TGC and a couple of major reformed seminaries. He is also a Marxist.

I'm really not trying to be uncharitable, but this just doesn't look right...right?
 

retroGRAD3

Puritan Board Freshman
It appears that James Riady, a man banned from the United States for influencing American elections with illegal financial contributions (a Soros type of character), is a source of generous funding for TGC and a couple of major reformed seminaries. He is also a Marxist.

I'm really not trying to be uncharitable, but this just doesn't look right...right?
That is really disturbing to hear.
 

Jonathco

Puritan Board Freshman
I know little of Mr. Riady, but a quick web search does show a mix of scandals and as well as major donor funding of reformed educational initiatives. With that, the 9th Commandment guides me to not speak ill of a brother whom I have little actual knowledge of.
 

Andrew35

Puritan Board Freshman
I know little of Mr. Riady, but a quick web search does show a mix of scandals and as well as major donor funding of reformed educational initiatives. With that, the 9th Commandment guides me to not speak ill of a brother whom I have little actual knowledge of.
The scandals need to be divided into pre/post-conversion, with the egregious ones landing in the former.

As for the rest, some grace does need to be extended with respect that, in Indonesia, as I understand, business deals can have a... rather different character than in a developed Western nation. I don't think most of you would understand the pervasiveness and extent of corruption that has plagued the nation since the days of their dictator. Nobody who's made it through that era has come out smelling very nice.

As to "Marxist," I'd want to see some documentation from sources other than Pitchfork &--er, Pulpit & Pen.
 
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Peter Bell

Puritan Board Freshman
My school's former Dean of Students and Professor of Practical Theology is now their President. Be careful treading in water you do not have experience in. It may not change immediately and radically, but do know the intention is there. I've spoken to Dr. Julius Kim directly, and he's told me that's the goal.

A large organization needs time to redirect. Anyone with large business administration/leadership experience knows this!

Pray for them!
 

TheBruisedReed

Puritan Board Freshman
The scandals need to be divided into pre/post-conversion, with the egregious ones landing in the former.

As for the rest, some grace does need to be extended with respect that, in Indonesia, as I understand, business deals can have a... rather different character than in a developed Western nation. I don't think most of you would understand the pervasiveness and extent of corruption that has plagued the nation since the days of their dictator. Nobody who's made it through that era has come out smelling very nice.

As to "Marxist," I'd want to see some documentation from sources other than Pitchfork &--er, Pulpit & Pen.
Very good points. That's why I prefaced my post with "appears." I know what sources are reporting on this and I know they are not the most reputable ones. I was just throwing some talking points into the mix. Of course, that's probably a milder way of saying I was stoking the fire. If you'll have it, I repent of said stoking and will seek to be more cautious and loving in my posting. God knows my past is covered in horrific blemishes.
 
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TheBruisedReed

Puritan Board Freshman
I know little of Mr. Riady, but a quick web search does show a mix of scandals and as well as major donor funding of reformed educational initiatives. With that, the 9th Commandment guides me to not speak ill of a brother whom I have little actual knowledge of.
You're right, brother. I know absolutely nothing about him or the dealings with these institutions short of some sketchy internet articles written by known "pot-stirrers." This thread was a foolish thing to post.
 

TheBruisedReed

Puritan Board Freshman
My school's former Dean of Students and Professor of Practical Theology is now their President. Be careful treading in water you do not have experience in. It may not change immediately and radically, but do know the intention is there. I've spoken to Dr. Julius Kim directly, and he's told me that's the goal.

A large organization needs time to redirect. Anyone with large business administration/leadership experience knows this!

Pray for them!
Most encouraging! Thanks for sharing some positive content. I will certainly keep Dr. Kim, and TGC in my prayers.
 

Rutherglen1794

Puritan Board Junior
My school's former Dean of Students and Professor of Practical Theology is now their President. Be careful treading in water you do not have experience in. It may not change immediately and radically, but do know the intention is there. I've spoken to Dr. Julius Kim directly, and he's told me that's the goal.

A large organization needs time to redirect. Anyone with large business administration/leadership experience knows this!

Pray for them!
Perhaps I speak foolishly; perhaps naively. Please forgive me if this is a worse thing to say than I currently consider it. Please tell me if it is.

But..

If the apostle Paul was given the position of president of TGC (that's what you meant, correct?), and he accepted it, would he work slowly, or would he loudly and clearly denounce past TGC falsehood, and call those in need to repentance?
 

TomVols

Puritan Board Freshman
I know little of Mr. Riady, but a quick web search does show a mix of scandals and as well as major donor funding of reformed educational initiatives. With that, the 9th Commandment guides me to not speak ill of a brother whom I have little actual knowledge of.
Thank you for this. This is such a missing element nowadays. May your tribe increase
 

TomVols

Puritan Board Freshman
The scandals need to be divided into pre/post-conversion, with the egregious ones landing in the former.

As for the rest, some grace does need to be extended with respect that, in Indonesia, as I understand, business deals can have a... rather different character than in a developed Western nation. I don't think most of you would understand the pervasiveness and extent of corruption that has plagued the nation since the days of their dictator. Nobody who's made it through that era has come out smelling very nice.

As to "Marxist," I'd want to see some documentation from sources other than Pitchfork &--er, Pulpit & Pen.
Speaking solely for myself, I am grateful for your post. Aside from some very questionable sources, I've yet to see anything other than misinformation about the vast majority of accusations made about some.

If people know of actual instances of Marxism, etc., then trot it out. Otherwise - last time I checked - bearing false witness is a sin.

Problem is, some people will automatically label me as pro-Marxist or pro-CRT for saying the above. I am neither.
 

TomVols

Puritan Board Freshman
It's disturbing that I shared it in the first place. My sincere apologies.
I don't know that you need to apologize. I don't think you came in swinging and dropping very suspect "sources" or misleading quotes. You shared concerns, and I shared one I have. We both share a same overall concern for orthodoxy and a desire for there to be those willing to stand on truth and call error error.
 

retroGRAD3

Puritan Board Freshman
It's disturbing that I shared it in the first place. My sincere apologies.
To be more realistic, while I agree that articles on Pulpit and Pen and sources like it need to be investigated a bit, not everything they print is sensationalized. JD Hall for all his flaws, is an educated theologian. I do think he loses his balance at times, but again, he does make valid points at times. The unfortunate thing about many of the articles is the slant on them that get too personal and could be seen as an attack. There are also opinion pieces, but for the most part, these are identified up front. Again, not trying to give an apology for them, but I do want to make sure not everything is an automatic deny. At the same time, it's probably best to verify information from those sites with a couple of other independent sources.
 

Andrew35

Puritan Board Freshman
To be more realistic, while I agree that articles on Pulpit and Pen and sources like it need to be investigated a bit, not everything they print is sensationalized. JD Hall for all his flaws, is an educated theologian. I do think he loses his balance at times, but again, he does make valid points at times. The unfortunate thing about many of the articles is the slant on them that get too personal and could be seen as an attack. There are also opinion pieces, but for the most part, these are identified up front. Again, not trying to give an apology for them, but I do want to make sure not everything is an automatic deny. At the same time, it's probably best to verify information from those sites with a couple of other independent sources.
We have a good number of educated theologians on this board who are much more deserving a hearing than Hall.

Sorry, I'm sure he has good points from time to time. Most people do. But when you go about publicly slandering people about whom you know next to nothing, you automatically go into my "junk" folder -- along with the pesky political fundraisers and the wholesale-viagra peddlers.
 
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