Why Everybody, Hates John MacArthur

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Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Senior
Greetings fellow sinners,

Why Everybody, Hates John MacArthur

"John MacArthur is one of the most hated pastors in the United States. Learn why."

Pastor John MacArthur, is a pretty controversial guy. He has a few views that I consider strange and not from a Reformed tradition. But he is, as Wyatt Earp was said to be, "Brave, courageous and bold." Take a look at this video narrated by Morgan Freeman; well, not really, but it is a realistic voiceover pretending to be Freeman. I can't think of a more unlikely person in the world to narrate a work such as this. :)

 

Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Senior
To be tired of one-sided hagiographies of flawed men is to be tired of life.

I'm a kind of "stopped-clock, right twice a day" appraiser of fellow Christians. Or, if you catch my drift, a "whatsoever things are true, honest, of good report; any virtue, any praise," thinker. (Philippians 4:8)

I'd like to know if anyone knows a man who is not flawed. I certainly am, and so is everyone I know. That's the wonder of salvation. The Lord knows our blackness of heart to their very depth, yet He loves us passionately. If you discover a good thing in you, it is only the Seed of God within you (1 John 3:9) If you are given a Spiritual gift, that didn't come from you either.

1 Corinthians 4:6-7​
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? Now, if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
 

Jake

Puritan Board Senior
I haven't watched the video, but this is a very strange time to be posting a video like this.
 

RamistThomist

Puritanboard Clerk
I view JMac the same way I view all celebrity preachers. If they do some good, that's great. For the most part, though, I hold the whole operation in suspicion.
 

Edward

Puritanboard Commissioner
I appreciated him standing up to the Kalifornia Kommies. Some of the other stuff, not so much.
 

PuritanCovenanter

The Joyful Curmudgeon
Staff member
Many of us have had a deep appreciation for John MacArthur. Yes, we are flawed. There will always be a story of a fallen minister or ministry no matter how big or small they are. That is why we have Church Government ordained by God. The System Works. It ebb and flows. We have times of revival and times of chastisement. God is always good and Holy and He does rule all things well providentially.
 

Colin

Puritan Board Freshman
Why do so many people listen to MacArthur, this product of all the wrong schools? How can he pack out a church on Sunday morning in an age in which church attendance has seriously lagged? Here is a preacher who has nothing in the way of a winning personality, good looks, or charm. Here is a preacher who offers us nothing in the way of sophisticated homiletical packaging.

No one would suggest that he is a master of the art of oratory. What he seems to have is a witness to true authority. He recognizes in Scripture the Word of God, and when he preaches, it is Scripture that one hears. It is not that the words of John MacArthur are so interesting as it is that the Word of God is of surpassing interest. That is why one listens.
-Hughes Oliphant Old
 

beloved7

Puritan Board Freshman
Just got back from some fellowship time with some of the brethren. A portion of John McArthur’s book “Stand Firm” was read aloud and discussed as part of family worship. I’m not privy to whatever the recent controversy is but God continues to use him to bless His people.
 

lynnie

Puritan Board Graduate
I for one am tired of things like a couple months ago when a nice younger women in my church told me she watched a JMac video about judgment coming to America, and how bad it will be (agreed), but we will be raptured out first (nonsense). She grabbed my arm and said "you believe that, don't you?", and got a few choice comments about the origin of the rapture doctrine in 1830 when a lady spoke in tongues at a prophecy conference.

I tried to be positive that the Lord can protect us like he did the three men in the firey furnace; there is no need to be whisked away from it, but she was amazed and stunned that I didn't believe in what JMac was saying, and that I said what I said about the rapture doctrine. ( She has stayed friendly and asked me about potassium iodide for nukes after the war started in Ukraine, so she's thinking).

How many people is this guy- and all the ones like him- setting up to be crushed and bitter and shell shocked if terrible times come and they are not raptured? I know a pastor who said he talked to a few people from a Calvary Chapel who were angry that the rapture didn't happen yet.

Its just so tiresome and annoying, and harmful to people. I pray for people to be delivered from the false teachings of JMac in this area.
 

Eyedoc84

Puritan Board Sophomore
I for one am tired of things like a couple months ago when a nice younger women in my church told me she watched a JMac video about judgment coming to America, and how bad it will be (agreed), but we will be raptured out first (nonsense). She grabbed my arm and said "you believe that, don't you?", and got a few choice comments about the origin of the rapture doctrine in 1830 when a lady spoke in tongues at a prophecy conference.

I tried to be positive that the Lord can protect us like he did the three men in the firey furnace; there is no need to be whisked away from it, but she was amazed and stunned that I didn't believe in what JMac was saying, and that I said what I said about the rapture doctrine. ( She has stayed friendly and asked me about potassium iodide for nukes after the war started in Ukraine, so she's thinking).

How many people is this guy- and all the ones like him- setting up to be crushed and bitter and shell shocked if terrible times come and they are not raptured? I know a pastor who said he talked to a few people from a Calvary Chapel who were angry that the rapture didn't happen yet.

Its just so tiresome and annoying, and harmful to people. I pray for people to be delivered from the false teachings of JMac in this area.
I find it very ironic that the man probably most well-known for his stance against tongues and continuing prophetic utterances holds very tightly to a doctrine arriving from just that (I know many dispensationalists deny this, but I have yet to see credible historic evidence to the contrary).
 

Taylor

Puritan Board Graduate
I find it very ironic that the man probably most well-known for his stance against tongues and continuing prophetic utterances holds very tightly to a doctrine arriving from just that (I know many dispensationalists deny this, but I have yet to see credible historic evidence to the contrary).
I actually did not know this. Very interesting.
 

lynnie

Puritan Board Graduate
I actually did not know this. Very interesting.
Here you go. Too long for a full copy and paste but worth reading. I trust Lloyd Jones and his knowledge of the events.


One snip ( quoting MLJ):.... this teaching about the preliminary rapture (“secret rapture”) of the saints first came in as a result of an utterance, a speaking in tongues, a new revelation given in the church of the Rev. Edward Irving, and that it was accepted by certain people present.
 

Jeri Tanner

Administrator
Staff member
Here you go. Too long for a full copy and paste but worth reading. I trust Lloyd Jones and his knowledge of the events.


One snip ( quoting MLJ):.... this teaching about the preliminary rapture (“secret rapture”) of the saints first came in as a result of an utterance, a speaking in tongues, a new revelation given in the church of the Rev. Edward Irving, and that it was accepted by certain people present.
A good biography and history of this is Arnold Dallimore's "The Life of Edward Irving: The Fore-runner of the Charismatic Movement"
 

Santos

Puritan Board Freshman
Here you go. Too long for a full copy and paste but worth reading. I trust Lloyd Jones and his knowledge of the events.


One snip ( quoting MLJ):.... this teaching about the preliminary rapture (“secret rapture”) of the saints first came in as a result of an utterance, a speaking in tongues, a new revelation given in the church of the Rev. Edward Irving, and that it was accepted by certain people present.
Thanks for sharing! I grew up in Pentecostalism and I never knew this.
 

Stephen L Smith

Administrator
Staff member
Here is an interesting and spiritually profitable interview - Justin Peter's interviews John MacArthur. The interview starts about 20 mins in on this Youtube recording.

 

Taylor

Puritan Board Graduate
Another video. I think folks really need to listen to this. I have been truly appalled at the church’s unwillingness to follow wisdom in these matters in recent years, essentially just taking at face value every tabloid article released, regardless of the credibility or apparent motives of the author(s), and rushing to judgment without even remotely considering all the facts from both sides. It’s just wicked, and unqualifiedly so.

“The first to plead his case seems right, until another comes and examines him” (Proverbs 18:17).

 

ZackF

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I listened through that the other day. It was helpful. If anything, it reinforces my growing conviction that folks should resist social pressures to give opinions on each and everything in the news cycle coming across their phone. Is Spastic Retweet Syndrome in DSM?
 

Jerrod Hess

Puritan Board Freshman
Another video. I think folks really need to listen to this. I have been truly appalled at the church’s unwillingness to follow wisdom in these matters in recent years, essentially just taking at face value every tabloid article released, regardless of the credibility or apparent motives of the author(s), and rushing to judgment without even remotely considering all the facts from both sides. It’s just wicked, and unqualifiedly so.

“The first to plead his case seems right, until another comes and examines him” (Proverbs 18:17).

So this is the hypothetical thread that was posted awhile ago? I had no idea about any of this, and would've become aware sooner had not anonymity been deemed necessary
 

RamistThomist

Puritanboard Clerk
I'm not so sure the Proverbs verse applies here, since, as has been noted, Julie's report isn't the first one. The first would have come out when they excommunicated the abused woman. I don't think JM himself is close to the situation. I really don't know how one could successfully pastor a megachurch.

1. I don't think JM supervised an abuse scandal.
2. I think GCC handled it very badly. Not Moscow bad, but still bad.
3. Court documents exist concerning the abuse. Julie Roys may be a hack, but I think the court case is fairly straightforward.
4. I stopped following JM years ago, so I don't really have a dog in the fight.
 

God's in Charge

Puritan Board Freshman
I (as most reformed thinkers do) appreciate John M's stand.
What I fail to understand is why reformed people feel more comfortable issuing rebukes.
Of all of the Christian camps, we should know best our own sinfulness and should therefore correct with greater pause.
Obviously corrections and rebukes need to come. And as a pastor I give some myself.

But I don't think it's as easy as finding something unbiblical and then rushing to the examples of Jesus' rebukes and automatically assuming I have the same prompting from God's spirit to issue a rebuke.
Listening to some reformed thinkers Jesus was constantly issuing rebukes and people as a whole felt very uncomfortable around him. I'm not so sure that's true.

Maybe John MacArthur is dead on. Maybe he's not. I only know that for myself I don't have the freedom to be that corrective that often and be certain I'm speaking for God.
 

Taylor

Puritan Board Graduate
I'm not so sure the Proverbs verse applies here, since, as has been noted, Julie's report isn't the first one. The first would have come out when they excommunicated the abused woman. I don't think JM himself is close to the situation. I really don't know how one could successfully pastor a megachurch.

1. I don't think JM supervised an abuse scandal.
2. I think GCC handled it very badly. Not Moscow bad, but still bad.
3. Court documents exist concerning the abuse. Julie Roys may be a hack, but I think the court case is fairly straightforward.
4. I stopped following JM years ago, so I don't really have a dog in the fight.
Have you listened to the podcast I posted? It is quite thorough and very balanced in my opinion. The host even confesses that he thinks GCC could’ve done better.

For the record, I didn’t post it so that people will side with MacArthur. I actually don’t really care where people come down. My point in bringing in Proverbs 18:17 is simply this: regardless of one’s conclusion in any issue, even if one ends up reaching the correct conclusion, to have done so before considering both sides and viewing sufficiently the facts is foolish. And this particular issue, I’m convinced, is far more complicated than many folks are asserting. It seems to me that most folks’ only exposure to this issue is the Roys report.
 

David Taylor

Puritan Board Freshman
I'm not so sure the Proverbs verse applies here, since, as has been noted, Julie's report isn't the first one. The first would have come out when they excommunicated the abused woman. I don't think JM himself is close to the situation. I really don't know how one could successfully pastor a megachurch.

1. I don't think JM supervised an abuse scandal.
2. I think GCC handled it very badly. Not Moscow bad, but still bad.
3. Court documents exist concerning the abuse. Julie Roys may be a hack, but I think the court case is fairly straightforward.
4. I stopped following JM years ago, so I don't really have a dog in the fight.
An examination of the facts, something Roys et all like to ignore, is very interesting: https://protestia.com/2022/03/14/judge-julie-accusing-the-shepherd/

Timelines matter.
 

B.L.

Puritan Board Sophomore
I don't think JM himself is close to the situation. I really don't know how one could successfully pastor a megachurch.

I am not a proponent of megachurches or even large churches for that matter, but I do see that Grace Community Church has forty elders. While MacArthur is the senior pastor he's not teaching/ruling solo. Sure, he's the "buck stops here" guy, but he is an easy and visible target anytime a controversy erupts, which is bound to happen anytime two or more redeemed sinners gather.
 
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