Q: Did All Reprobate Angels Fall Before Man's Fall?

[No Other Name]

I remember reading somewhere in my library that the probation of elect angels most likely ended with Christ's ascension and that seems to be historically orthodox?

(I think WCF 3.3 is the same as 1689 3.3)

If that is historically the position, does that mean it is possible that other creatures in heaven were still observing seemingly-elect angels being revealed in time as reprobate during and throughout the ages after the Fall of man and before the Ascension of our Lord?

I cannot find any Scripture that specifically states that all reprobate angels were revealed and fell simultaneously with Lucifer, but I am not well-read in this area.

 

[Phil D.]

I remember reading somewhere in my library that the probation of elect angels most likely ended with Christ's ascension and that seems to be historically orthodox?

Maybe in Jonathon Edwards?

I cannot find any Scripture that specifically states that all reprobate angels were revealed and fell simultaneously with Lucifer, but I am not well-read in this area.

I am not well-read in this area either, and have absolutely no insights to offer. I did come across this relatively brief exposition on the angels that addresses the issue (starting on page 12). It is a RC based work (so should be read with discernment), but it is succinct, well-organized and replete with Scripture references that look helpful for studying the topic.

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

As Phil noted, the RC article is not to be trusted, with its view that the angels that fell were "on probation, and [had] free will" to choose, until Jesus was born, while the 1689 and WCF 3.3 say they were predestined / foreordained to their lots.

In Rev 12:4 KJV, we read of the dragon, that "his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth"; this was before the birth of Christ; and in Rev 12;7-9 KJV, we read, "there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." This was after the blood of the Lamb was shed in His atoning sacrifice.

In Rev 20:1-2 KJV we see, "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years..." This was after the resurrection and enthronement of Christ.

Then, in Rev 9:1-2 KJV, we see an angel (likely the same holy angel who bound him in Rev 20:1-2) come down from heaven to loose the dragon and his hordes in the fifth trumpet judgment, the darkness and deception of which continues even into the sixth bowl judgment (Rev 16:12 ff) and the deception there.

In sum: Before Christ was born, the fallen angels who accompanied Satan had cast their lots with their chief.

 

[No Other Name]

As Phil noted, the RC article is not to be trusted, with its view that the angels that fell were "on probation, and [had] free will" to choose, until Jesus was born, while the 1689 and WCF 3.3 say they were predestined / foreordained to their lots.

I looked at the RC article but I will not trust it. It is chock full of Scriptures but I do not trust their hermeneutics in the slightest and thus would require a ton of work to suss out what inside that article is salvageable (or not).

I cannot recall what I read from my Reformed library that made a case for linking predestination and foreordination "to eternal life through Jesus Christ" with the probation of elect angels ending with the fulfillment of Christ's gospel mission. (And that position is not coming from the RC article that Phil linked).

However, if you mean that you reject probation of angels on the basis of a perceived contradiction, then I would say that it is not contradictory to believe angels were on probation and had free will to choose while also affirming that they were predestined/ foreordained to their lots.

After all, that is also true of Adam.

Is there something in those verses that necessarily contains the fact that all non-elect angels that would ever fall did fall simultaneously with Lucifer?

And Lucifer and the third part of heaven fell before Adam's fall, yes? And there were no other non-elects angels falling after Adam's fall - either by direct statement or necessary deduction from another Scripture?

I am genuinely asking.

This is not a setup because I am over here quietly sitting on another idea or opinion ramping up to a debate. I really am not.

 

[MW]

I cannot find any Scripture that specifically states that all reprobate angels were revealed and fell simultaneously with Lucifer, but I am not well-read in this area.

Jude 6 and 2 Pet. 2:4 refer to an historical fall of these angels as a class. "The angels that sinned" were all dealt with together. I would be inclined to think this is the general view of Reformed theologians.

 

[DanSSwing]

If at least some believers were going to judge angels (the first scripture that came to my mind, I Corinthians maybe?), does this mean that they were held in chains for this original crime only to be judged by believers at a much later point?

 

[No Other Name]

Jude 6 and 2 Pet. 2:4 refer to an historical fall of these angels as a class. "The angels that sinned" were all dealt with together. I would be inclined to think this is the general view of Reformed theologians.

Helpful. I tend to agree. I went home and looked up where I had remembered reading it and lo and behold, @Phil D. was right. It was Edwards and his Miscellanies.

To be precise, it was really Edwards quoted in Beeke and Jones:

(3) God's establishment of elect angels in righteousness.

... Jonathan Edwards devoted a dozen of his "Miscellanies" to the confirmation of elect angels. He saw confirmation as a progressive work that began with "the terrible destruction that God brought upon the angels that fell," and continued with the "experience of the elect angels in their own happiness in standing", particularly in Christ's work of redemption (Eph. 3:10; 1 Tim. 3:16; 1 Peter 1:12). That ended the time of probation for the angels, who received the full and certain confirmation of eternal life when Christ ascended into heaven.

- Miscellanies 442 and 515 from The Works of Jonathan Edwards, quoted in Beeke, Joel and Jones, Mark. "The Puritans on Angels". A Puritan Theology, p. 184.

I will now try to track Edwards' thinking.

If P1: God makes known or reveals unto the apostles and prophets (v. 5) by the Spirit ... to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God", (Eph. 3:10)

and if P2: "great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." (1 Tim. 3:16)

and if P3: "unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into." (1 Peter 1:12)

then it can be concluded: C1 - God established the elect angels in holiness and happiness (WLC Q. 19) by making known by the church his manifold wisdom to the elect angels in heaven (Eph. 3:10)

C2: The Incarnation including all events from birth to death to resurrection to ascension to mediation is seen by angels with great desire to look into because it stands to reason that their election is connected with the work of Christ (WCF/1689 3.3) in a different way than the work of Christ and the Spirit births new life into man (logical deduction since it is axiomatic that elect angels are not totally depraved by original sin having had no federal head that fell).

I don't think anything in here warrants any idea that after the fall of Adam and before the Incarnation there is any indicator that a seemingly-elect angel would fall into sin and be exposed as reprobate. (eg, at a moment of crisis such as Gethsemane).

Even if one accepts Edwards' hypothetical timeline of the ages-long probation period for elect angels that ended at the Ascension, that premise of more falling angels during those ages would be extraneous and have no Biblical warrant that I can see using responsible hermeneutics.

Thanks everyone; I simply was overpreparing for an upcoming Sunday school lesson on 1689 3.3. God bless you all

 

[MW]

Thanks everyone; I simply was overpreparing for an upcoming Sunday school lesson on 1689 3.3. God bless you all

Always good to be overprepared. You never know what might come up. There is also benefit in being able to speak to something particular from a broader knowledge base.